Engine holds its revs.

[Robby]

That's funny they state from MY 13 models are supposed to do it, maybe ours are correct and the ones that don't do it are faulty
New Topic is your triton not holding revs

[AnOldFart]

...OK...First some humor...
Re: Details of Hotline fixes/technical service bulletins/rec
Postby AnOldFart on Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:42 pm

Danos wrote:Hey guys, this is really good info for new car buyers.
I've just bought a new triton diesel and gear changes are a bit funny. Once you push the clutch in the engine picks up about 500 rpm or so. It's really difficult to prevent it from happening. Is this what is meant by surging?
Cheers
Dane

Hey Dano, that 'Flare feature' mentioned by CD must be there to assist us new fangled modern day Triton owners with the now long forgotten, old time crash-gearbox driving era trucker's, gears changing skill, that they used to refer to as 'double de-clutching'...! From what I read on some of these posts about the problems being encountered with reliable operation of the syncros and gears selection on the manual Triton boxes, maybe MMAL wants to 'encourage' us all, to revive the long forgotten art, of double clutching again...??
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...Now some Serious...
Re: Getting to the bottom of this engine flaring..
Postby AnOldFart on Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:13 pm

hookS wrote:This post is of most important to this engine flaring problem.I purchased 3 x 2013 2.5 tritons all with the same prob and must admit I knew on test drive that seem not to be normal.Sucked in by salesman said but they all flare like this between gear changes ,but most settle down after run in a bit.Well talking to local plumber in home town 35000 kms he done and is as bad now as the day he drove it out the dealership.So I get on my small but stubben soap box ring them to say I got 3 tritons to come down for a fix on this flaring thingo after to your salesman pitch.Well the response was to talk to tech in workshop,so that happens he says we have never been able to fix this problem and said I unlucky to get the 3 that all done it because some have no prob.Old sales guy got the last laugh ;Ha Ha.It seems they do not want know about fix for this as they may be out of pocket on it.Thanks for a great forum guys and understand this post was not getting to the bottom of flaring but it starting to get to me every time hop in one and drive.

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So, would someone with their own vehicle exhibiting this 'engine flaring' problem, actually like to volunteer to try my simple / easy suggestion of tying a length of string to the FunGoPedal, so that it can be quickly -yanked- upwards by hand, to ..force.. the accelerator pedal to ..fully.. return to it's ..at-rest.. position, whenever this "Flare" issue occurs...? That should very quickly prove, whether or not, the 'flare' problem is being caused by a ..sticky.. spot, on the last little bit of the accelerator pedal's return travel, when it's trying to come back to it's normal, at-rest position....
This is not as silly as it might at first sound because the 'Accelerator Position Sensor' actually relies upon a thin moving metal vane, running through a very narrow air-gap in a Hall-Effect chip. If that moving metal vane has the slightest 'kink' in it, it could catch / bind, on the edge of the air-gap that it runs in, which would cause these exact 'engine flare' symptoms some members are complaining of.... My own 2010 MN Ute doesn't suffer from this problem so I can't try out my 'pull up the string' theory. It needs one of you blokes with the issue to try it... The ball's in your court...

[PhilW]

I have tamed my engine flaring to a point where it is hardly noticeable and believe me mine was bad to the point that I was close to flicking the ute.

I purchased and installed Tony''s EGR mod and cannot believe the difference it has made to the flaring.

Not completely gone.....but only a very/very slight rev hang and not the full on flare that was present before the mod. Would be interested in feedback from others who have the same problem and choose to fit the mod.

I have mine wired through a switch (this option supplied with the kit) so can turn it on and off.....that's when the difference is really felt.

Happy, happy days

[PhilW]

[quote/]
So, would someone with their own vehicle exhibiting this 'engine flaring' problem, actually like to volunteer to try my simple / easy suggestion of tying a length of string to the FunGoPedal, so that it can be quickly -yanked- upwards by hand, to ..force.. the accelerator pedal to ..fully.. return to it's ..at-rest.. position, whenever this "Flare" issue occurs...? That should very quickly prove, whether or not, the 'flare' problem is being caused by a ..sticky.. spot, on the last little bit of the accelerator pedal's return travel, when it's trying to come back to it's normal, at-rest position....
This is not as silly as it might at first sound because the 'Accelerator Position Sensor' actually relies upon a thin moving metal vane, running through a very narrow air-gap in a Hall-Effect chip. If that moving metal vane has the slightest 'kink' in it, it could catch / bind, on the edge of the air-gap that it runs in, which would cause these exact 'engine flare' symptoms some members are complaining of.... My own 2010 MN Ute doesn't suffer from this problem so I can't try out my 'pull up the string' theory. It needs one of you blokes with the issue to try it... The ball's in your court... [/quote]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


It's a funny thing .....the flaring in my ute was not present unless you were changing up with the gears. At rest if you depressed the pedal and rev the engine it returns to idle without a hang.

After the results that I achieved with the mod I reckon it more EGR related????

It feels like a throttle body/EGR thingy as the harder you accelerate and the steeper the hill the worse the flare is.

[AnOldFart]

[quote/]
So, would someone with their own vehicle exhibiting this 'engine flaring' etc... etc...
etc... etc... to try it... The ball's in your court...

It's a funny thing .....the flaring in my ute was not present unless you were changing up with the gears. At rest if you depressed the pedal and rev the engine it returns to idle without a hang.
After the results that I achieved with the mod I reckon it more EGR related????
It feels like a throttle body/EGR thingy as the harder you accelerate and the steeper the hill the worse the flare is. [/quote]

The only problem I can see with the "It feels like a throttle body/EGR thingy...etc" theory Phil, is that there is only one thing that should make a diesel donk spin faster, or for longer, and that is ..fuel.. If I'm reading the previous member's Posts correctly, then they are saying that this 'engine flare' thing is happening when you lift the size 12 bloocher ..off.. the FunGoPedal ie, just when you'd expect there to be ..less.. fuel going into the injectors, ergo, the engine revs should fall... That's what makes me suspicious of a 'sticky' Vane, rotating through the tiny air gap in the Hall-Effect sensor chip, inside the Accelerator Position Sensor box. The simple 'pull the string up quick test' that I suggested, would quickly prove that theory either right or wrong... If it's not that ..physical.. fault causing it, then I would suggest that it points towards something changed in the engine ECU software programming that is ..holding.. the supply of fuel to the injectors 'on' for a small time, after the size 12 bloocher's been lifted.... Very puzzling...

[AussieAnth]

My Nov 2013 MN GLX manual Triton has done it since day one.

Service dept manager at Mitz said its because of Drive by wire, but didnt go into it.

Snorkel, EGR blank, Provent 200 and now DP Chip have not affected it. Might have to really pay attention as DP chip is pretty new so might take some careful observation to see if it has tamed it a bit. Perhaps 3" exhaust coming soon might help somewhat?

Im only at 4,500kms, but its encouraging to hear some owners report it tapers off somewhere after 5,000 kms.

Any 2013 manual owners who DONT have this issue?

[RJTrojan]

You'll be glad (or not) to hear it's not an Aussie problem, exclusively.

Here in the UK, my 2013 L200 'Trojan' (basically an MN with and ML tub and a challenger front end) does it too. Oddly, it didn't do it in the first 8,000 miles of it's life, but that point coincided with a severe 'cold snap', so I sort of put it down to a cold start feature. The thing is, sub-zero temps have gone, and the problem hasn't. Quite irritating.

Dealer says will look at ECU next service (two weeks time).

[AnOldFart]

You'll be glad (or not) to hear it's not an Aussie problem, exclusively.
Here in the UK, my 2013 L200 'Trojan' (basically an MN with and ML tub and a challenger front end) does it too. Oddly, it didn't do it in the first 8,000 miles of it's life, but that point coincided with a severe 'cold snap', so I sort of put it down to a cold start feature. The thing is, sub-zero temps have gone, and the problem hasn't. Quite irritating.
Dealer says will look at ECU next service (two weeks time).

Hmmmm, ..."didn't do it etc.. but that point coincided with a severe 'cold snap'"..."The thing is, sub-zero temps have gone, and the problem hasn't"... now that point of yours is very interesting indeed, 'RJTrojan' because, when the ambient air temp is sub-zero the EGR circuit's 'control valve' is forced to remain shut / closed, which, by the way, is exactly the same effect on the EGR circuit that is achieved by the installation of Tony's Resistor Mod.... Maybe 'PhilW' is right after all, with his theory that it's related to the "throttle body EGR thingy" ... In the pre-2013 models as I understand it, the EGR valve normally opened once air temps were warm enough and closed again at higher engine speeds & WOT. Wonder if Mr Mitsui has now altered the EGR's ECU programming, in the 2013 models to keep the EGR open, even at, high engine speeds & WOT ie, at high inlet and exhaust boost conditions...

[PhatVelvet]

Mine flares, 2013 mn manual, Tonys mod made it much less noticeable, but I live in Darwin and got the flaring so I'm not sure it's a cold temp related thing?

[Cowboy Dave]

No what he is saying is that low temps turn off the EGR which is how the Tony EGR mod works - ie by telling the ECU that it's way colder than it really is. So in your case it's been manually done but in the case above the weather was so cold maybe something similar was going on.

[AnOldFart]

Mine flares, 2013 mn manual, Tonys mod made it much less noticeable, but I live in Darwin and got the flaring so I'm not sure it's a cold temp related thing?

No, the point is 'Phat' if you go back and re-read RJTrojan's Post, what he's saying is that sub-zero temps over in the UK where lives ..stops.. the engine flaring problem from happening. It's only now that the weather has warmed up that he's got the problem back again... Which points to it being a problem caused by the EGR valve being open when the air temp is warm enough. So the question is, what has Mr Mitsui changed, about the prior 'normal' operation of the EGR circuit, on the 2013 models...

[aids84]

My '12 model MN will hold its revs in the first minute or so of driving on a cold winters morning, doesn't do it any other time.

Some of the '13 models are really quite bad to the point of being dangerous, Mitsubishi technical assistance just blow it off with the old "characteristic of the vehicle" spiel.

[hookS]

Ok got to speak to Tech at one of head offices in Adelaide about this flaring thingo that's driving a percentage of us mad.The flaring he said should not be over 500rpm coming down on up shift in the box and he admitted there is some 2013 mn tritons flaring above this ie over 500 rpm and they need to be recalibrated at stealers back to 500.Now OLD FART IS CORRECT the reason for the revs is to work in harmony with gearbox.Well I said to him what load BS and he reply was that dealers are not to try and change it until it comes with up date on ECU when the Hirachy say change it.Ok I said well if you can change it back to 500 you can also take it back to idle no he say 500 be the lowest.So the ones that are not flaring you very lucky and are the odd ones out as they should all be like a Mack truck.Keep up the work finding a mod for our BIG MACKS.Cheers.

[fridgie]

Mine flares, 2013 mn manual, Tonys mod made it much less noticeable, but I live in Darwin and got the flaring so I'm not sure it's a cold temp related thing?

No, the point is 'Phat' if you go back and re-read RJTrojan's Post, what he's saying is that sub-zero temps over in the UK where lives ..stops.. the engine flaring problem from happening. It's only now that the weather has warmed up that he's got the problem back again... Which points to it being a problem caused by the EGR valve being open when the air temp is warm enough. So the question is, what has Mr Mitsui changed, about the prior 'normal' operation of the EGR circuit, on the 2013 models...

Not the way I read it 'old fart' If 'you' - go back- and 're-read' it you will see that it began during a --cold snap-- to which he 'thought' it was a -cold start- feature The 'temps' have now risen but the 'feature/flaring' has -continued as the 'issue' at hand......

[Cowboy Dave]

I hesitate to venture in but I think you can read the original post there about 3 different ways. He seems to start off saying there was no prob for 8000 miles but then that it was cold for that period which would suggest cold = no problem but then the suggestion that the problem was a cold start issue begins to suggest that maybe the end of the 8000 miles is when the cold started and the cold start problem started...

[fridgie]

Ahhh yes, but the 'cold snap' left and the problem stayed, 'thought it was a cold start feature' reads to me that it initiated in the cold temps

We need him to come back and say I'm right

[Cowboy Dave]

I don't need that at all. I'm just glad we won't now be tying shoelaces and octopus straps onto our go-pedals to test the other theory.

[RJTrojan]

My bad guys, I wrote in an ambiguous fashion, I see now!

To be clear, I got my truck in spring with only delivery miles on it. Throughout summer and autumn, I covered 8k miles with NO FLARING at all ('scuse emphasis).

Winter temps set in at the time of my odo turning over to 8k, and the truck started holding revs on gear changes, just as mentioned elsewhere. I grew up on series landies with awful gearboxes, and graduated to military dinosaur recovery trucks (Scammells and such), so did the aforementioned double de-clutch, and put it down to the freezing temps knowing I would be getting a service at 12,500 miles.

Now we are in glorious spring, and I'm in a t-shirt. Us Poms aren't known for our hardiness, so you can deduce that the weather is mighty fine... my truck, however, still thinks my clutch foot needs a workout, and is flaring like it was during the cold spell. Service on Tuesday, so I'll see what mechanic (a good, time served guy) says and let you know his opinion.

R

[hookS]

I was reading a few posts on Volvo type forum that the same problem they are having with the Audi Diesel they use in the Volvo cars.Only when the clutch is depressed the flare happens, no probs when in shed idling and reved up returns to idle without the flare,so Triton the same.

[chrisdoherty87]

Could it be that because the throttle body is open and diesels tend to produce positive pressure at next to idle that on gear changes you put the clutch in (taking away the load from the engine) and there is still positive pressure in the piping/inlet and the ecu adds fuel to match to prevent running lean? This could produce that small amount of flaring and would explain why it doesn't do it just free revving in neutral?

[hookS]

Does that mean there could be a fly bye wire on the clutch or maybe the gearbox of some sort sending data to ECU.Reply to post of chrisdoherty87.

[chrisdoherty87]

Clutch is hydraulic. Accelerator is fly by wire and that itself could be part reason for the revs but even with a sprint booster which speeds up the signal it still does it on mine so I doubt it. Plus my bike with fly by wire is instant throttle response so I don't think that is it. I have always had quick turbo cars all petrol though so this is new to me but it just seemed it could be an cause???? I'm sure someone will correct me. Without a blow off valve the compressed air has to go somewhere and although they get compressor surge (that cool noise you hear with exhaust or muffler delete) then it could be being pushed into inlet. Just an idea.

[viking shippy]

No doubt from what I have read there is definitely some amount of engine flair....
But please you guys don't get this confused With a petrol engine....by comparing them to a deisel.....they are oh so different..
a high compression high boost turbo diesel engine does take some time to lower revs and return to idle.
They do flair a little when changing gear even my 07ml does it.
you have to change your driving style and it takes a bit..of getting used too.
From my experience v12 man diesels in Rivera's do it,
410 cummins in trucks do it and many light trucks I've driven do it....
Just saying this to keep this thread in perspective....

[chrisdoherty87]

I do know what they are referring too. I own a 2013 glxr and drive Navaras and hilux at work all the time and my triton does tend to lift the revs a lot more noticeable than the others but I have learnt to deal with it and drive it a bit different. My theory came from watching my scangauge. When I change gear at high boost 18-22psi it flares a lot more than if it is around 9psi even if I get off the throttle early before gear change. I can live with it but it is different.

[viking shippy]

I do know what they are referring too. I own a 2013 glxr and drive Navaras and hilux at work all the time and my triton does tend to lift the revs a lot more noticeable than the others but I have learnt to deal with it and drive it a bit different. My theory came from watching my scangauge. When I change gear at high boost 18-22psi it flares a lot more than if it is around 9psi even if I get off the throttle early before gear change. I can live with it but it is different.

Yes that what I'm talking about..also..now if we can moove that unwanted boost to the initial throttle application we have a win win situation..lol..