FYRLYT - The new standard in driving lights?

Re: FYRLYT - The new standard in driving lights?

Postby DocBassett on Tue May 14, 2013 6:35 pm

You wanted discussion, and you are getting it. You seemed to think it was ok for you to invite your own armchair criticism with other posts such as fitting 33 inch tyre size and cv issues etc- so how is this any different??. Did you not read where I said it was a good write up and comparison??? probably wouldn't be single digit temperatures if you weren't so high up on your horse.
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Re: FYRLYT - The new standard in driving lights?

Postby har05l on Tue May 14, 2013 6:42 pm

Are you serious doc :roll: , 5th contributes so much in regards to knowledge in many areas when it comes to our vehicles and you wish to ridicule him. It's his choice to share and we should all be thankfully for his continual input.
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Re: FYRLYT - The new standard in driving lights?

Postby Cowboy Dave on Tue May 14, 2013 6:46 pm

DocBassett wrote:You wanted discussion, and you are getting it. You seemed to think it was ok for you to invite your own armchair criticism with other posts such as fitting 33 inch tyre size and cv issues etc- so how is this any different??. Did you not read where I said it was a good write up and comparison??? probably wouldn't be single digit temperatures if you weren't so high up on your horse.


Doc you're out of line there mate. 5th is a valuable contributor and knows more about lights than I do about just about anything I care to think of. The reason it was single digit temps was because he lives in the bloody ACT.

If you want some robust discussion I'm all for it but you need to choose your battles better than this one.
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Re: FYRLYT - The new standard in driving lights?

Postby DocBassett on Tue May 14, 2013 6:51 pm

sure am buddy. I simply stated that it would be good to get a comparrison from even categoried lights from the same side. I didn't say he had to do it. I wasn't criticising what he'd done, simply adding ideas. I think its a great idea and great comparison. But you can't allow one member to voice an opinion and not others surely???? why should one person be held above another??? Is this not a forum for discussion???? BTW 5th, I commend you for what you went out and did. The comparrison will help many people hugely. many people will find it useful. If i had access to lights, i'd love to do the same. BUT i know that in your line of work, you'd be a perfectionist- and I know that deep down inside, you feel that comparing even categoried lights in an even manner would be idealistic, but as i stated earlier- is probably implausible and unpractical. Just like a cure for cancer is great. it's a great idea, but doesn't mean it's going to happen.
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Re: FYRLYT - The new standard in driving lights?

Postby Cowboy Dave on Tue May 14, 2013 7:04 pm

The point you're missing is that it's not about the person as much as it is about the post and the quality/validity of the information in it. If people choose to take things personally then that's their mistake. Over time though, if a person always posts quality then people start to recognise that. Equally if someone always posts shite then they get known for that too. I regard 5th as in the former category about 90+% of the time. We should all aspire to that...
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Re: FYRLYT - The new standard in driving lights?

Postby DocBassett on Tue May 14, 2013 7:12 pm

I don't think you understand. I was not having a go at him. I merely stated that IMHO, it looked like the HID's lit up the verge better (I didn't know lights were tested from different sides). Once i found out lights were on different sides, I stated that it changes the outcome of the test- for example, if all lights were on only the left, the newer lights may have blown the others i.e HID out of the water. I was simply making a statement. I then made a recommendation based on a theory, that it would be great to have seen an even comparrison. I wasn't having a go at him for not doing this and I do not expect him to go and do this. As i stated, he has done an awesome job (better than I could have done). If he chose to take offence to it then so be it- cry me a river. But you can't allow one person to post and not allow it to be discussed, regardless of someone's background or whether or not they post crap or not. discussion is discussion. Simple as that.
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Re: FYRLYT - The new standard in driving lights?

Postby Cowboy Dave on Tue May 14, 2013 7:18 pm

NowForThe5th wrote:Crikey Lunny and you too, Doc. Give us a break! We went down there in single digit temperatures on a Saturday night to get some comparisons and satisfy our own curiosity about these new lights and make some sort of comparison versus the lights on our own vehicles. Came back and shared some photos and my thoughts for those who might be interested.

None of us are professional photographers, nor are we lighting engineers. I accept that our testing methods may have been better and I've already said that we intend to back up again in a few weeks time with some ideas to improve the results, including taking measurements of the lighting levels at various points and using a single position to test from, comparing standard and alternative options for headlights. plus some other things that might improve the photos. Even invite some retailers who may wish to show their wares.

The idea of this thread was to share and foster some discussion on the Fyrlyt lights, which may be of interest to others. It wasn't to invite armchair criticism of the photos or our testing methods. If you think you can do better, be my guest. Or you can join us and we can include your lights in the comparison. The more the merrier, as they say. ;)


DocBassett wrote:You wanted discussion, and you are getting it. You seemed to think it was ok for you to invite your own armchair criticism with other posts such as fitting 33 inch tyre size and cv issues etc- so how is this any different??. Did you not read where I said it was a good write up and comparison??? probably wouldn't be single digit temperatures if you weren't so high up on your horse.


DocBassett wrote:I don't think you understand. I was not having a go at him. I merely stated that IMHO, it looked like the HID's lit up the verge better (I didn't know lights were tested from different sides). Once i found out lights were on different sides, I stated that it changes the outcome of the test- for example, if all lights were on only the left, the newer lights may have blown the others i.e HID out of the water. I was simply making a statement. I then made a recommendation based on a theory, that it would be great to have seen an even comparrison. I wasn't having a go at him for not doing this and I do not expect him to go and do this. As i stated, he has done an awesome job (better than I could have done). If he chose to take offence to it then so be it- cry me a river. But you can't allow one person to post and not allow it to be discussed, regardless of someone's background or whether or not they post crap or not. discussion is discussion. Simple as that.


And again you're missing the point and arcing up about nothing. 5th's post was pretty neutral I thought in tone. Your response was to accuse him of being a bit delicate and afraid of discussion off the back of some imagined slight in your now infamous 33 thread. And yeah you were having a go as the quote above makes clear. That's why I said you were out of line. Haro obviously thought so too so I'm not alone in my reading of it. And now you're off on your own high horse. Calm down and take a breath FFS. Think before you type and leave your emotion somewhere else and everything will go much more smoothly.
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Re: FYRLYT - The new standard in driving lights?

Postby Lunny on Tue May 14, 2013 7:19 pm

NowForThe5th wrote:Crikey Lunny and you too, Doc. Give us a break! We went down there in single digit temperatures on a Saturday night to get some comparisons and satisfy our own curiosity about these new lights and make some sort of comparison versus the lights on our own vehicles. Came back and shared some photos and my thoughts for those who might be interested.

None of us are professional photographers, nor are we lighting engineers. I accept that our testing methods may have been better and I've already said that we intend to back up again in a few weeks time with some ideas to improve the results, including taking measurements of the lighting levels at various points and using a single position to test from, comparing standard and alternative options for headlights. plus some other things that might improve the photos. Even invite some retailers who may wish to show their wares.

The idea of this thread was to share and foster some discussion on the Fyrlyt lights, which may be of interest to others. It wasn't to invite armchair criticism of the photos or our testing methods. If you think you can do better, be my guest. Or you can join us and we can include your lights in the comparison. The more the merrier, as they say. ;)


Hey 5th, I did not intend to mean that in a bad way, i have performed these sort of tests a while back when choosing lightbars to buy.

i am all in for comparo tests, i actually really enjoy all things spottys and lightbars so i suppose i was just suggesting how we have done it.

Sorry to offend your work, and i bet alot of people will love to see these results.

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Re: FYRLYT - The new standard in driving lights?

Postby NowForThe5th on Tue May 14, 2013 7:43 pm

All good, Lunny.

Ummm...Doc, I didn't post in the 33' thread except for one response to Stefanos about his video.

Anyway, can we talk about lights now?
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Re: FYRLYT - The new standard in driving lights?

Postby Lunny on Tue May 14, 2013 7:49 pm

on that topic,

what lights are you running 5th?
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Re: FYRLYT - The new standard in driving lights?

Postby Cowboy Dave on Tue May 14, 2013 8:09 pm

Unless he has since swapped he was running the genesis lights from lightforce - probably one of the ones used in the comparo up the top. I have his old rallye 4000s converted to HID. I think he misses them but it sounds like some new fyrlyts might be on the way.
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Re: FYRLYT - The new standard in driving lights?

Postby NowForThe5th on Tue May 14, 2013 8:35 pm

You are 100% correct, Dave. Genesis with 35 watt HID at 4300K. Found I can actually see further with those than the 50 watt which just flooded the foreground and made everything beyond like it was in a black hole. Headlights are stock standard atm, pending fitting the new ones.

Standard headlights were sad even compared to the standard Hilux. Would be tempted to say that Mitsubishi could do with a new lighting engineer but have had the chance to try an NW Paj over the last few days and was impressed with those, for factory lights.
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Re: FYRLYT - The new standard in driving lights?

Postby Lunny on Tue May 14, 2013 8:40 pm

i cant say many bad things about my standard headlights compared to my old ute, though im consideri g fitting the hid kit to them, but im still pondering on ideas. my fogs lights and stupidly bright, i actually get flashed when the are on lol
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Re: FYRLYT - The new standard in driving lights?

Postby smlr on Tue May 14, 2013 9:11 pm

another popcorn thread :D
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Re: FYRLYT - The new standard in driving lights?

Postby Honky on Wed May 15, 2013 2:46 pm

Not to do with Driving lights but I have been doing a lot of bicycle riding with a 4500 lumen light and when I approach people on shared footpaths I push in down which makes the front area of foothpath white as.
This reduce my distance that I can see an in most cases cannot see the person walking.
I have now decided to have a low power light for bicyle paths and use the powerfull one to get back at the HID cars when I am riding on the road.
I would assume that the whiter the light the shorter distance you can see and apart from the good spread in HID high beam would not use HID in driving lights.
Most of my driving in the triton is long distance in Western NSW and am very happy with my lightforce non HID 140's and standard lights
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Re: FYRLYT - The new standard in driving lights?

Postby Homer on Wed May 15, 2013 2:55 pm

I saw a single bright hid car headlight this morning that seemed stationary and pointing towards me but on a funny angle and couldn't work out what was happening.

Turned out to be a pushbike with 2 small lights waiting for someone on the side of the road. Very dangerous IMO as it was both blinding and not normal causing a bit of uncertainty.

I wouldn't want to be on a push bike and blinding someone travelling 50-60kph faster than me in a significantly larger car, whether I wanted to 'get them back' or not :?
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Re: FYRLYT - The new standard in driving lights?

Postby odie602r on Wed May 15, 2013 3:09 pm

Homer wrote:I saw a single bright hid car headlight this morning that seemed stationary and pointing towards me but on a funny angle and couldn't work out what was happening.


Which is exactly why single led lightbars aren't legal (well definitely in SA anyway) - and must be mounted in pairs.

Regarding HID, I think too the kelvin rating is a factor re distance, with 4000-4500 considered ideal.
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Re: FYRLYT - The new standard in driving lights?

Postby Cowboy Dave on Wed May 15, 2013 5:09 pm

Honky wrote:I would assume that the whiter the light the shorter distance you can see and apart from the good spread in HID high beam would not use HID in driving lights.


I'm not sure that's right. I think from some of Chris' posts the point that he makes is that if it's very white or very bright, you run the risk that by making the foreground so bright your eyes can't adjust properly to seeing anything that's too far away.

On an ordinary high beam situation your low beams cut out so the light is all concentrated a little further up the road. If you then run spotlights and an LED bar you've got tonnes of light but the brightness of the close in area lit by the lightbar stuffs you up for the longer range stuff lit by the spotties.
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Re: FYRLYT - The new standard in driving lights?

Postby NowForThe5th on Wed May 15, 2013 6:29 pm

odie602r wrote:Regarding HID, I think too the kelvin rating is a factor re distance, with 4000-4500 considered ideal.


Kelvin rating, or temperature, is a method of describing the colour of the light. It isn't all that accurate, which is why official standards don't use it, but at least it gives a means of reference. 4300K is supposedly the colour of halogens, but it isn't, 3700K is probably closer (but you can't buy bulbs in this colour - well, not easily, anyway).

Legally acceptable colour goes up to close to 5000K, effectively a range from the slightly yellowish colour of halogens to pure white (no blue). 4300K is the colour that emits the most lumens for each watt of power input.

Above that and the lumens begin to drop. Still acceptable at 5000K but noticeable by 6000K and by 8000K you're pretty much back to halogen levels. Above that and you have lights that are technically illegal for not being bright enough.

Obviously as output in lumens decreases the available light drops and so does the distance that you are able to see clearly to.

Just to keep this in reference to the Fyrlyts, their output is 5000 lumens. About the best automotive halogen light gets up to 2100lm, 35 watt HID at around 3200lm and 50 watt HID about 4200lm. Above that the scale gets a bit grey because output is dependent on efficiency of the ballast and some are pretty woeful - they might consume 75 watts but only operate at 70% efficiency. There are better ones, of course, but they are seriously expensive.
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Re: FYRLYT - The new standard in driving lights?

Postby NowForThe5th on Wed May 15, 2013 6:40 pm

Honky wrote:I would assume that the whiter the light the shorter distance you can see and apart from the good spread in HID high beam would not use HID in driving lights.


Not quite. The problem is more one of colour definition. A light that has a slight yellowish tinge gives better colour definition for human eyes which see some colours better than others. So you see more and can use colour better to identify things. Up to around 5000K the colour definition is quite good. We see blue very poorly so once the colour reaches that we really aren't seeing as much as we could with a lower 'temperature' light.

Just to explain this in relation to my post above I should add that, theoretically, a 35 watt HID bulb emits exactly the same amount of light at 8000K as it does at 4300K. However, our eyes can't see all of it so it should perhaps be referred to as "visible light". This is very simplistic - there are much more technical descriptions of the phenomenon.

As far as intensity is concerned, Dave is pretty much on the money.
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Re: FYRLYT - The new standard in driving lights?

Postby paddstar69 on Wed May 15, 2013 7:32 pm

I run these globes in my headlights and they seem to be a good balance of light and penetration

good description of lumens and kelvins and how they work NowForThe5th :)


http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/H4-Philips-C ... 19c6cd2e36

I must clear up I am not connected to this add, it was only for description purposes the globes that they are selling, purchase from whoever you choose :)
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Re: FYRLYT - The new standard in driving lights?

Postby Cowboy Dave on Wed May 15, 2013 8:28 pm

We're back off topic but while off topic these blokes seem pretty good for the globes too (also I have some faith I am getting genuine items which bothers me with ebay on this type of product) http://www.powerbulbs.com/au/product/philips-xtreme-vision-h4-car-headlight-bulbs

Oh and they are often cheaper than ebay, the only problem being waiting for postage from the UK.
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Re: FYRLYT - The new standard in driving lights?

Postby odie602r on Thu May 16, 2013 8:47 am

Re 5ths comments/explanation on kelvin rating/colour temperature of lights: I wonder what difference colour blindness makes to the perceived or actual clarity of objects illuminated by the different kelvin ratings of lights?

Just thinking, and assuming that there would be an effect, that some people may be able to see more clarity and definition with standard halogens but another more clarity with slightly whiter light (clarity, not necessarily distance).

Re the fyrlyts, it would be interesting to see long term how long the 150w bulbs last. More heat which any higher wattage generates normally equals shorter life. And yes I understand they've engineered the lights to efficiently deal with the heat, but there's still heat. Also, what the rate of drop off in lumens is from new to 12 months later etc. from what I understand this is where decent Hid globes can be more beneficial as the light intensity or lumen output is more constant throughout the lifespan.
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Re: FYRLYT - The new standard in driving lights?

Postby NowForThe5th on Thu May 16, 2013 1:06 pm

Osram have made a special variant of their HLX bulb for Fyrlyt. Not much data on it, since it isn't generally available but should have much longer life than their standard one which was quite short.

Both halogen and HID bulbs lose output over their lifespan. HID bulbs are often quoted as having a lifespan of 2000 hours when reality is that 300-500 hours is more like it. Oh, they may still work but the output drops as the electrodes wear away. In halogens the filament wears away and although the halogen gas encourages deposition of the particles back on to the filament, rather than the inside of the capsule, they still lose output.
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