ChipIt & Steinbauer Discussion

[ultimate]

From the experience we have had with numerous diesel chips; the Steinbauer has proven to be more reliable.

How can you say more reliable ... the only reason we get codes or limp mode is that we push the tunes to a much higher level.

If everyone was happy with 20% gains, ISSUES WOULD BE HISTORY !!!

As you walk the tight rope for more and more power we run the risk of more limps

I don't quite understand what your trying to say here. First you take a stab at the Steinbauer for not being reliable but than explain that the Chip It is less reliable because it pushes the engine too hard? Wouldn't this statement suggest that the Steinbauer is more reliable because it works within the vehicles limits and not on a "tight rope" like the Chip-It?

As I expressed in an earlier post, I believe both products are good and should be assessed differently.

[CHIP IT]

I dont think the triton is the problem,

Tell that to the many Mitsu owners that have taken their vehicles back for SVC issues ... AND NO CHIP.

MMA replace the SCV BECAUSE they know, from standard, there is an issue. The dealers are replacing them all the time and they never say "WELL YOU MUST HAVE A CHIP TO GET THAT PROBLEM OCCURING."

Same goes with the 3.2 intake manifold. EGR Valve takes the soot from from exhaust and dumps it right onto the MAP sensor port. Well done MMA. Yes, there is a fix for it ... replace the intake manifold with the one out of the MN 2.5 HP as they then moved the port to face up instead of down.

It doesn't stop the sooty exhaust, just stops it hitting the port easily.

[CHIP IT]

... the module simply changes the timing of the blast of fuel, and the lenght of the blast of fuel going into the injector, still allowing the motor to burn that extra volume of fuel efficiently, thus no smoke, which is unburnt fuel,

BS. not having smoke does not mean it is efficient AT ALL. When the injector timing is lengthed the extra fuel is burnt later in the birn cycle. And burning AFTER the piston is at the correct angle BTDC or just NOT how to get efficiency from an engine. If the piston heads down the cylinder and the fuel is still burning then it is wasted ... BUT GUESS WHAT ??? It will burn beautifully ... and no black smoke. So just because you get no black smoke dont go pissing in the wind that its effeicient. Iron you simply are regurgitating stuff you have read. ... The other risk is high EGTs. Again, look at our graph where we compare the two. The readouts don't lie.

Because the mn's have the new variable geometry turbo, the boost should not be changed or it will not perform correctly to the way these turbos are set!!!

Just out and out scaremongering. You have little info and lots of time to read stuff on line and profess to be the expert.

Your car may not be blowing smoke, but YOU do !!

[CHIP IT]

What I am saying is if we only wanted to provide a 20% gain, we too would have few issues.

When you ask for more you will find the ECU throws up a code. THERE IS NO CONCERN ABOUT ENGINE FAILURES OR SENSORS FAILING OR AIR BAGS GOING OFF ... just a CEL.

Its not like a petrol engine ... works differently and air /fuel ratios much mean either saving or wasting fuel ...not detonation (ping) like the petrol engine.

You know that.

From the experience we have had with numerous diesel chips; the Steinbauer has proven to be more reliable.

How can you say more reliable ... the only reason we get codes or limp mode is that we push the tunes to a much higher level.

If everyone was happy with 20% gains, ISSUES WOULD BE HISTORY !!!

As you walk the tight rope for more and more power we run the risk of more limps

I don't quite understand what your trying to say here. First you take a stab at the Steinbauer for not being reliable but than explain that the Chip It is less reliable because it pushes the engine too hard? Wouldn't this statement suggest that the Steinbauer is more reliable because it works within the vehicles limits and not on a "tight rope" like the Chip-It?

As I expressed in an earlier post, I believe both products are good and should be assessed differently.

[CHIP IT]

Perhaps the best feature of the Chip It, even more so than the power and driveability improvements, is that it stops the limp modes that blocking the EGR creates.

That alone gives it a firm hold on the top of my Triton mods challenge board.

My previous DP Chip didn't do this.

The Steinbauer may, I don't know. If it doesn't, then in the Triton's unique case I personally wouldn't consider it for that reason alone.

It doesn't

[bill65]

Guys running chips that increase the rail pressure will eventually damage something. I have been through this this with TDC, No Limits & chip It. All gave me error codes & limp home modes at times that could have been very dangerous. I won't say which was the worst but the TDc was the better of the three by far.

Lucky for my Scangauge 11 which allowed me to quickly clear the codes & get running again, especially in the M5 tunnel towing a boat.

Fuel pump rebuilds are expensive I now run a Steinbauer & so far everything has been fanmtastic. It has performed flawlessly & great when towing my boat which was one of my first requirements.
My ute pulls like a frieght train up hills & I can overtake cars with the boat on the back effortlessy.

I just wish I had saved myself the expense of the other chips & bought the Steinbauer first. But like everyone we all look to save money.

now this what i like sumone who has had the chips ... i have a TDC and had a chipit one .my car did not like...now i have no limp mode thanks to misb who cut the wires to the limp mode to get it going ..i now run the TDC ..the chipit one had more power put it would not run on my car....

[barraboy]

[quote]"
"How can you say more reliable ... the only reason we get codes or limp mode is that we push the tunes to a much higher level.
If everyone was happy with 20% gains, ISSUES WOULD BE HISTORY !!!
As you walk the tight rope for more and more power we run the risk of more limps"

Reply
Well I hope for your sake you don't walk the tight rope too far by admitting that your product may or could or possibly cause problems at the 30% to 40% level. This is to me, an admission that maybe your product could have the potensional to be unsafe and the integrity of your product compromised. Hence, maybe that's why The Steinbauer chooses to increase by only 20% to stay within the vehicles limits and not on a "tight rope".

[ironhide]

WELL!!! havnt been online for a while, and guess what! there seems to be a lot of heated BS coming from only you CHIP IT ( robert), I think your trying to over compensate mate We ALL have the right to put our opinion accross, you just keep bla bla bla bs trying to defend your product, and fair enough, but you still havnt shown me any results???? I asked you a while agoe to show me a dyno from a indapendant dyno done here in australia on a TRITON!!! Just like I did, not another f'n make of car! WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TRITONS!!! You keep bagging the steinbauer, but I have shown its results on my MN TRITON, and it shows it works. Your results on your web page arnt done here are they??? They are in friggen HP! This is australia and we use KW's and the metric system here mate! Get out and find some real results like i say, to show the people out there in the real world what gain you get on the TRITON! I now know why a few guys have comented on your bad manners, Its really starting to shine! Cheers PS. Cant wait to see this 40% gain dyno

[Greedy]

WELL!!! havnt been online for a while, and guess what! there seems to be a lot of heated BS coming from only you CHIP IT ( robert), I think your trying to over compensate mate We ALL have the right to put our opinion accross, you just keep bla bla bla bs trying to defend your product, and fair enough, but you still havnt shown me any results???? I asked you a while agoe to show me a dyno from a indapendant dyno done here in australia on a TRITON!!! Just like I did, not another f'n make of car! WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TRITONS!!! You keep bagging the steinbauer, but I have shown its results on my MN TRITON, and it shows it works. Your results on your web page arnt done here are they??? They are in friggen HP! This is australia and we use KW's and the metric system here mate! Get out and find some real results like i say, to show the people out there in the real world what gain you get on the TRITON! I now know why a few guys have comented on your bad manners, Its really starting to shine! Cheers PS. Cant wait to see this 40% gain dyno

[RHKTriton]

Each time I'm nearly swayed to chip it back to the research mode.

Was talking to a friend yesterday and he has fitted chips from europe into his fleet of VWs and he's stoked.

[jop]

I now know why a few guys have comented on your bad manners, Its really starting to shine! Cheers PS.

The bad manners in this thread started with your first post

[ironhide]

I now know why a few guys have comented on your bad manners, Its really starting to shine! Cheers PS.

The bad manners in this thread started with your first post

Im not a DEALER, Im a triton owner! Im only telling my side of fence that most people are sitting on. Plus the first post on this tread was pulled out of another tread, where we had allredy been discussing this story with other input from other members, with other conversations.
If you read chip its comments back to me recently, he is now starting to admit that because the chip it pushes the triton harder maybee, yes you do get the limps etc, and that was what I was originally trying to point out to the members who were having troubles. Im not saying that alll of their users will have the same dramas, but the ones who do should at least take a look at the other avaliable products and systems.

[daryn]

... Plus the first post on this tread was pulled out of another tread, where we had allredy been discussing this story with other input from other members, with other conversations.
... [/color]

I have just reviewed the original thread Ironhide and still believe that the two threads were split appropriately, the story from your post onwards took Tony's thread into a debate about two alternative chips hence this thread was created and allowing the original thread to stay on topic.

[Tony]

I think the threads were split appropriately. Keeps this place tidy when one uses the search function etc.

Just to add some fuel to the fire here. I still have my chip removed ATM. Truck is running great. Sooo, did it cause my issues? We don't really know yet. Although reading all this ^^^^ has made my wife very anti chip it. Nice work guys. She now doesn't want me to put the chip back in. So who's gonna buy it then "run it" to prove ironhide wrong. Its up for crabs. I will put an add in the appropriate place soon.

Anyway, she has talked me out of it.... So, Fug the chips, we just want our truck to be reliable and totally trouble free from here on. Cant take any risk when towing horse floats on narrow roads plus my wife and kids travel to Sydney often.
I must be getting older, as would normally persist with any problems.

[CHIP IT]

WELL!!! havnt been online for a while, and guess what! there seems to be a lot of heated BS coming from only you CHIP IT ( robert), I think your trying to over compensate mate We ALL have the right to put our opinion accross, you just keep bla bla bla bs trying to defend your product, and fair enough, but you still havnt shown me any results???? I asked you a while agoe to show me a dyno from a indapendant dyno done here in australia on a TRITON!!! Just like I did, not another f'n make of car! WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TRITONS!!! You keep bagging the steinbauer, but I have shown its results on my MN TRITON, and it shows it works. Your results on your web page arnt done here are they??? They are in friggen HP! This is australia and we use KW's and the metric system here mate! Get out and find some real results like i say, to show the people out there in the real world what gain you get on the TRITON! I now know why a few guys have comented on your bad manners, Its really starting to shine! Cheers PS. Cant wait to see this 40% gain dyno

I gave you actual peopl ewho were experts in the field who had the SB Chip and took it off and replaced it with ours. He owns a dyno, he runs a rally driving team and dump SB for a Chip It Module. I gave you a dyno of a SB system which had loads more fuel dumped in than our system. I advised why SB has less CELs compared to ours, but it seems you forgot to look at those.

It was mentioned that with our Chip the EGR blanking option is permissible, not so with SB.

SB has its place, no question about it but they advise 20%. You cannot get more more than that with injector signal interceptors, but if you want more power and still have all the safeties provided by the factory ECU you need to go the Common Rail approach. If you want only 20% increase we can program that in and magority are not going to get CELs. If you want a higher power setting, something SB cannot give you, than we need to increase the chance also that people will have CELs appear ... and most times this can be sorted by a warranty replacement of the SCV. We also have the service of sending tunes to customers tunes via email ... try getting that from another Chip manufacturer ... including SB.

IS SB a good Chip? Yes, but it has some (major) limitations as they dont change the start of the injection point. When they (or we) come up with a Chip that does this, it WILL be able to increase power without blowing smoke.

The greatest Chip EVER will be one that does Common rail AND the Injector Signal Interceptor ... something we are working on, but yes it will increase costs of course.

In the mean time, ask SB to post up as many dynos we have, or show you the Triton's they own and all the work they have done on them.

We not only dyno all our work, but list them on our website for all to see. Do SB? To do testing tey needed your car ... we have our own and do testing over and over and over on our ouwn Mitsus. We push our Mitsu engines FAR more than we do customers ... just so they know what they get is safe, but thats what we believe is the right thing to do. I think people appriciate that and also being able to trust we know what we are talking about when it comes to Triton's and Pajeros etc. That and being able to receive tunes via email is a major advantage. That's what we are told time and time again.

[CHIP IT]

Your results on your web page arnt done here are they??? They are in friggen HP! This is australia and we use KW's and the metric system here mate! Get out and find some real results like i say,

Yes they are. All our own work with various tuners around Australia. All INDEPENDENT. Where have you been looking?

This is written ALL OVER OUR WEBSITE, ON ALL OUR ADVERTS ... WE TUNE HERE IN AUSTRALIA IRONHIDE!!

... HERE IN AUSTRALIA !

We dont have 1 dyno from another country ... why would we ... we are the manufacturers. We dont buy from Europe like SB. Your EXACT questions should be given to SB.

BTW, where's all the dyno sheets on the SB website? Try finding any and try finding any by INDEPENDENT TUNERS.

We post all our results tested by others on their dynos for all the world to see. I dont know ANY OTHER Chip Manufacturer that does this ... not one! Go take a look. You may get one dyno on their website showing show arbitrary increase in power, but never for each vehicle they produce a chip for.

Being honest with customers and potential customers is where we have gained a lot of respect. We tell it as it is. If a car does not respond well to a Chip, we dont sell it. (case in point Mazda 3) We dynoed one, it made 10% gain, we decided not to market it because we wisht ot be known for solid increases ... not something that people wont be happy with. (I think I still have the dyno sheets for that one too)


Lastly regarding HP and kws, its whatever the tuner has on the dyno. If they use HP, we are not going to them them to change ... mainly because the dyno is a measuring tool. It is there to measure changes. Whether that be in HP, KWS or NM, we can see if the change we made to the tune has improved or not. And when its all over, we get a print out.

[CHIP IT]

I still have my chip removed ATM. Truck is running great. Sooo, did it cause my issues?

Happy to try another chip and see if a lower tune will fix the issue GLX.

And apologies to the wife, I do get passionate when people tell porky pies or accuse us of telling porkies.

Take this to PM if you like ... up to you. But it is something we want to fix. And we have found another option to get around delicate Triton fuel regulators ... you could give it a go on yours if you like and if it don't work we always have the refund policy.

Cheers

[borngeek]

Thanks CHIP IT for answering mine and other questions.

I will take some of the further question I have on a personal level to email as I dont want to cloud the discussion above. Will share as relevant First thing is to get some more tunes off CHIP IT...

//
Tony, I understand where your wife is coming from.. Horses slipping and/or falling on their arse in a trailer is dangerous no doubt about it! For the driver and the horse...
I would persist with trying a set of new tunes, if you have the patience. Understand how you currently feel!

[NitroGLXRin]

On ya CHIP IT! Keep shutting Ironhide down, I have no idea what hes talking about most of the time. Can you (or ironhide also) elaborate on the "Because the mn's have the new variable geometry turbo, the boost should not be changed or it will not perform correctly to the way these turbos are set!!!" comment where you said it was just scaremongering? I thought ironhide's comment was completely wrong and has no meret at all as the variable vane is just changing the angle of attack of the air to optimise itself for the correct rpm its spinning at. How is allowing more boost going to affect this? Obviously it is still restricted to the max RPM where the turbine blades become inefficient, but this is still the case if it doesnt have variable vanes.

He did have a point about your charts being in HP, I think the start of this year it was meant to be standardised that engine power should be represented in kW's and HP only added as a secondary reference. But then again, its not that hard to convert between the two measurements

[Tony]

Just had another talk to the wife, with Chip It happy to cooperate and help out (I have promised her there will be no more problems) It's a real worry with the horses. We have decided not to toss it in yet. Very much out of my character to do that anyway.

I'll get the 30,000 service done and will try again with milder tunes etc. I'll go with what Chip It's recommendation on this. If it means changing it out well be it. Cant beat their support on the product, that's for sure.

We're after maximum low end/ mid range torque for towing and overtaking at highway speeds. Not a flame belching dragster. May make a deference in how its tuned so not push things as hard in the top end rev range. Has plenty of poke in the top end anyway.

Lets hope we can get this all to work in harmony as it should

[CHIP IT]

:lol: On ya CHIP IT! Keep shutting Ironhide down, I have no idea what hes talking about most of the time. Can you (or ironhide also) elaborate on the "Because the mn's have the new variable geometry turbo, the boost should not be changed or it will not perform correctly to the way these turbos are set!!!" comment where you said it was just scaremongering? I thought ironhide's comment was completely wrong and has no meret at all as the variable vane is just changing the angle of attack of the air to optimise itself for the correct rpm its spinning at. How is allowing more boost going to affect this? Obviously it is still restricted to the max RPM where the turbine blades become inefficient, but this is still the case if it doesnt have variable vanes.

He did have a point about your charts being in HP, I think the start of this year it was meant to be standardised that engine power should be represented in kW's and HP only added as a secondary reference. But then again, its not that hard to convert between the two measurements

I hear you, however, we just use what is out there. In other words, there not our dynos and we don't do the dyno runs ... which means its kept independant and verifiable by others (not within the Chip It Organisation) which is what people ask for. Can't have it both way.

About the Variable Geometry turbo, I did reply already. Post 217.

[daryn]

...About the Variable Geometry turbo, I did reply already. Post 217.

Robert, post 217 is your post count, posts are not numbered, you made need to be a bit more specific to its location if they missed it.

[NitroGLXRin]

^^^ahh, must have missed it. Cheers

Edit: As Daryn said, cannot find the post.

[Naff]

ironhide - regardless of whether the dyno is in HP or kW, the curve and therefore gain is still the same, if the HP increases by 25%, the kW increases by 25%

without checking, am fairly sure that 1HP = 0.75kW

[Tony]

Who cares to much about HP or KW, Its the torque us MN owners are after.