Oil Catch Can working

[Cowboy Dave]

Why would you need reducers ?

Probably because that hose looks like something off the back of a fire engine?

It should be 5/8 hose shouldn't it? If not I'll be back on the hunt for some hose myself. I ended up with transmission hose of some sort after trying about 10 different shops.

[Cowboy Dave]

I finally got around to getting my catch can all plumbed up last night.

I took a bunch of photos today but they're all crap - this one gives an idea anyway:



It's tucked in between the airbox and the brake lines. It's close but doesn't touch either of them - gave it a bit of a thump and it still doesn't hit the brake lines but it's something I'll probably keep an eye on just in case.

It's a supacheap/calibre brand unit. I got some 16mm brass fittings from Pirtek, some 5/8 transmission hose and some steel wool and stuff. There's a brass tail fitting down the bottom with some clear hose and a little tap for draining. Inside the can there's a vertical divider running down the middle for 2 or 3 inches and then steel wool. I figure that should keep most of the oil out of the area where the intake hose draws from. I got a tightly woven steel wool sort of scourer pad as the top layer so there aren't any loose strands of steel wool anywhere near the top.

That silver thing above the intake is a 16mm Unicoil - I fitted that because I was concerned about the hose pinching where it goes through 90 degrees to get onto the vertical fitting over there.

[sim_r32]

with the provent you shouldnt the outlets on it are pretty much the same size as the outlets on the intake and engine so the hose can just go on there and just tighten up the hose clamps... the hose that fits the provents is huge its like having 2 pythons in the engine bay

[Kegsy]

Here's my provent on the MN 2.5.

[mad992]

looking good fellas looking good cd thats the same 1 i got and iam happy with mine

[brownegaz]

If anyone wasnt sure why its a good idea to fit a catch can just take the air hose off where it fits onto the air intake manifold and see how much oil is laying inside the air metering valve, to get here oil has been sucked into the turbo charger from the crankcase breather hose then its been carried with the air as it passes through the intercooler, so the internals of the intercooler are also coated in oil which effects the "cooling" of the air and the performance of the engine.

I had just cleaned mine when I decided to take a photo

Has anyone gone to the trouble of trying to flush the accumulated oil out of the intercooler or am I being anal?



brownegaz

[brownegaz]

Here are some photos of my catch can set up which I have finally got around to installing, for info on how to make your own have a look here
http://users.on.net/~aschulze/ZD30/ZD30 ... Colour.pdf
, on page 35.



This is the system I used however I used steel scourer pads instead of foam and I used fine stainless steel gauze to prevent any steel wool from finding its way into the turbocharger.



brownegaz

[mad992]

looks good browne gaz

[savagess]

HI All,
Been following threads about catch cans and taken interest in this as I'm upgrading from a ML to MN Triton.
I decided to talk to the lead tech at Mitsubishi Nundah, and spoke to a very informative person, Steve.

I've tried to relay all we talked about here, hope it's informative.

Basically the Japanese are not convinced the carbon build up is causing the Drive-ability issues., So for Mits Australia Thieu have to make sure when a care comes in with related complaints, that all software updates are applied, upper inlet ports are checked and photos sent pff before inlet manifold is to be replaced.

He thinks it's a good idea for a catch can, as long as it doesn't vent, the inlet / outlet ports are the same diameter as standard, if they are measured his concern are the backing up in the rocker / crank case which will not be good long term.

EGR blanking he doesn't recognise due to the engine management will eventually pick this up.

Went to explain the ML Swirl controls valves, and that Mits Japan don't trust Mits Australia that they can clean these without damaging them...

The MN, doesn't have swirl control valves but has an 8 legged manifold, 4 ports on the passenger side and four ports on the top of the head, so more area for the carbon to gather.

He acknowledge Mits Australia are testing catch cans, similar to the ones they used on the Cordia's

He's also going to let me know of a catch can from the states he saw and recommends, he had it saved but could not find it at the time.

All up it was around an 8 min call, I hope the information I relayed is correct. All up, a catch can with filter, 16 mm or 5/8 hose and preferable a method to drain from the bottom is good to use....

[Blue]

HI All,
Been following threads about catch cans and taken interest in this as I'm upgrading from a ML to MN Triton.
I decided to talk to the lead tech at Mitsubishi Nundah, and spoke to a very informative person, Steve.

I've tried to relay all we talked about here, hope it's informative.

Basically the Japanese are not convinced the carbon build up is causing the Drive-ability issues., So for Mits Australia theu have to make sure when a care comes in with related complaints, that all software updates are applied, upper inlet ports are checked and photos sent pff before inlet manifold is to be replaced.

According to my man, the Japs are more than aware and acknowledge the carbon/drivability issue - no photo's, drive in/drive out with new manifolds

He thinks it's a good idea for a catch can, as long as it doesn't vent, the inlet / outlet ports are the same diameter as standard, if they are measured his concern are the backing up in the rocker / crank case which will not be good long term.

positive pressure on the crank case side, vacuum on the turbo side pretty much negates this unless you let the catch can clog up

EGR blanking he doesn't recognise due to the engine management will eventually pick this up.

EGR is bollocks, Cummins are having big issues with EGR'd truck engines expelling more soot than an old V8 Mack - agree the plate can have undesirable side effects

Went to explain the ML Swirl contols valves, and that Mits Japan don't trust Mits Australia that they can clean these without damaging them...

My guy cleans them regularly under instruction from Japan

THe MN, doesn't have swilr control valves but has an 8 legged manifild, 4 ports on the passenger side and four ports on the top of the head, so more area for the carbon to gather.

He acknowledge Mits Australia are testing catch cans, similar to the ones they used on the Cordia's

I asked my guy why they Mitsu don't look into them, he says it has been brought up many times but Japan have no interest in testing/applying them

He's also going to let me know of a catch can from the states he saw and recommends, he had it saved but could not find it at the time.

All up it was around an 8 min call, I hope the information I relayed is correct. All up, a catch can with filter, 16 mm or 5/8 hose and preferable a method to drain from the bottom is good to use....

Not trying to be a smartass but you really can't afford to listen to Mitsu about anything...!!! Look at us, 2 guy's, two completely conflicting stories, both straight from Mitsu mouths...

[mad992]

im with blue

[Homer]

The difference in the two story's is either the quality/knowlege of the mechanic or whether he thinks he can con you with BS.

[savagess]

I'm not sure what the comment I'm with Blue.
There's no sides just relayed the information given to me.

He seemed genuine enough and I've been round the traps enough myself (I'm no spring chicken) it is interesting though of the conflict of information given.

With the catch can info
"He thinks it's a good idea for a catch can, as long as it doesn't vent, and the inlet / outlet ports and hoses are the same diameter as standard, if they are narrower his concern is the backing up in the rocker / crank case which will not be good long term"

From what I was told, he said Mits Japan have no interest in testing them as they don't believe it's an issue. At least to me that makes sense why.

Any way no use arguing the matter, interesting though, but the end goal is yes having a proper catch can won't void warranty. This leaves the Chip It one out as it has a smaller diameter hose which will attract the service departments attention no doubt.

it was meant to say ...

[savagess]

I found these ones, look wuite good
http://www.42draftdesigns.com/categorie ... hcans.html

The Stealth one seems good (and cheaper) considering no need to replace the filter, fittings are a tad bigger.

I've seen some other pics of the stealth one with a dipstick too, so could be a update to them?

[Cowboy Dave]

Wow, they sure are some pretty looking catchcans right there, I'll give you that. Got my provent sitting here to install so it's too late for me to get into that bling though.

[Kegsy]

Wow, they sure are some pretty looking catchcans right there, I'll give you that. Got my provent sitting here to install so it's too late for me to get into that bling though.

Taking out your supercheap one?

[Cowboy Dave]

Yeah one day - I've sprung a bit of a leak, should have sealed the threads on my brass hose barbs and maybe not buggered the gasket around the top when I was stuffing around with the other bits of it. I didn't think there would be a lot of pressure involved but there seems to be enough to provoke a vapour leak of some sort around the top

[Kegsy]

Thats a shock, I too would have thought it would be fairly low pressure.

How much oil have you been catching in your MN? I've been getting around 5ml per 1000kms or so... A lot more than I thought it would.

[Cowboy Dave]

Haven't measured it as yet. Not enough to get up to the sight tube anyway. Will take some pics of whatever there is when I do the changeover. Just need to find the time, the bracket being the challenge as always.

[mad992]

Haven't measured it as yet. Not enough to get up to the sight tube anyway. Will take some pics of whatever there is when I do the changeover. Just need to find the time, the bracket being the challenge as always.

thats a shame dave my calibre catchcan is doing its job after i used thread seal tape to seal the drain oil was leaking as well mine hasnt reached sightglass yet either but its working ive checked about 20mls per 4000klms

[savagess]

HI All.
After more investigation, I'm going the Provent (was getting the 42 Designs model I posted earlier)
Spoke to Greg from Carformance that gets both these in and said for a 4x4 provent is the best at removing oil.
Also back up my suspicion that you don't want a catch can that has smaller fitting / hoses etc, as this will cause back pressure to the engine, as the blowby for any diesel is immense because of the higher compression over petrol engines.

He mentioned DPF filters, with the VW diesels they want $4200 for a new filter and only suppose to last for 150k, any idea on the ones for the MN Tritons?

[Cowboy Dave]

the MN is not fitted with a DPF. For quite a while I thought I had one but I eventually learned the error of my ways...

[cogdoc]

Thanks to Scott's query, I've found you guys on this forum, and it's good to see some people aware of this problem in modern diesels. I believe in it so much I started a side business, and the whole aim is to help find some solutions to things like blowby, EGR and the dreaded DPF filters you guys are still avoiding for now. If you have a modern diesel, a Provent is just about the best thing I could recommend you fit.



Sure I plug these things, but you can get a Provent anywhere, as well as the 42DD cans, readily available in the USA. I care more that you guys seriously consider fitting a can, for the sheer amounts of blowby I have found in my 2.0 VW TDI is more than I've ever encountered in V8's etc. It looks like the Triton plumbs the oil blowby in pre turbo, so you then proceed to coat the entire innards of your intercooler with oil, and this does indeed reduce the efficiency. Of far larger concern is when that blowby mixes with the EGR and forms an oily sludge that builds up considerably on your inlet mainfold, and in the Euro cars it does everything from reduce the inlet runner size ( read less power, reduced economy ) to jamming swirl flaps and electrically actuated parts like the EGR valve itself. Sticky EGR valves and anti shudder flaps are causing all manner of problems, and the service centres across all the brands are all too aware of the blowby sludge problems.

When you guys eventually get DPF's, they can regenerate the soot and last quite some time, but oil ash builds up permanently in them, and once they are blocked, that's it. For DPF cars reducing oil ingested by the engine becomes twice as important, as even though VW charge ludicrous amounts for a DPF, I can't see anyone doing a Platinium coated Silicon Carbide matrix cheap.



Rubber hose from supercheap will do fine, but silicon is the best for oil resistance but 4 times the cost. Also only comes in pretty colours like blue, I'm still trying to find it in plain old black. Please do your best to avoid bends and fittings, as it's all about flow, and I noticed one can in the pictures above quite close to the turbo; the cooler you can keep the can, the more oil will condense. The Provent has a 1psi relief valve, so if it ever clogs or pressure builds up it vents to atmosphere, so it is indeed really THE only choice for the diesel engine. Backpressure in the blowby system will lead to oil being forced out your turbo bearings, mainseals and even past the piston rings, and it's a well known trick in the MX world to upsize your crankcase vent to up the power, by reducing the pumping loss. Plumb with flow in mind!

Finally cans all come down to their mechanical maze that helps condense the oil, and the 42DD ones both have the same innards, but even then they are really only suitable for petrol with it's lower blowby in my humble opinion. They have the upside of no ongoing maintenance, so in the very least consider a can along those lines. Most cans on e-bay and at supercheap are simply empty cans, but be very careful filling them with pot scourer etc, you simply don't want ANY backpressure. Been there, tried that, failed!!


Better than nothing, but at about the same cost as the basic Stealth 42DD can, the Provent is the go. Western Filter in Sydney have them, Active Air Spares and me up here in QLD ( I get mine from Bob at Active ), and if you go on the Mann and Hummel site, you will find the stockists in the various states.

[RHKTriton]

I haven't seen any recent comment re the crud getting as far as the Cat convertors. Has anyone checked their's to see if any blockage is occuring?

[cogdoc]

Shouldn't affect a cat as it is a straight through design, and it gets burnt to ash during combustion. Only a concern to the closed channel design of a DPF, which does trap the ash in the silicon carbide heat regenerated versions currently used.