Triton CV Joints - removal and re-assembly

Engines, Gearboxes, Transfers, Tailshafts, Diffs, axles and CVs

Re: Triton CV Joints - removal and re-assembly

Postby MrPlow on Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:28 am

Thanks guys. Also, any updates on the repco compatibility with the mn?

Can someone link me to the site for Bursons CV. i cant find it on the site im looking at.

http://www.burson.com.au/
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Re: Triton CV Joints - removal and re-assembly

Postby Homer on Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:32 am

If you're doing the same CV it sounds like you may have a possible issue with them binding properly with the locker?
Is it passenger side? I have seen instances in the lokka where the taper is an issue so the split ring doesn't engage correctly and also on one ARB locker where there was a manufacturing defect (I think) on the same taper that also stopped correct coupling of the CV to the diff.

In all these situations they break (clicking) the CV's very easily...at times within minutes of engaging 4wd :|

Otherwise being mindful of full droop or full lock (where possible) will see the CV's last pretty well even when driving where all the cruisers and pootrols go...

There are some members who have gone pretty much everywhere anyone else has and never done a CV and others who after initially breaking possibly pre damaged CV's haven't again - or rarely broken another. Harsh 4wding with just a rear locker seems to see cv's break relatively quickly when a front locker is fitted...

I have (touches wood) not had a CV fail and have had a front locker for 100,000k's. It is worth noting that I would say I probably never pre-stressed the originals and having the V6 it has lower torque than the diesel...that is something worth considering when 4wding...torque is hugely overrated....seems to break more things than anything else....

I'd turn off any performance aids (if possible) when doing low range stuff....just not required and stresses the driveline unnecessarily.

In saying all that :roll: :oops: my bet if it's the passo side is it isn't binding correctly ;)

As said, go the Bursons for marginal price compared to OEM...
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Re: Triton CV Joints - removal and re-assembly

Postby fraz91 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:37 am

kenworthitman wrote:Thanks guys. Also, any updates on the repco compatibility with the mn?

Can someone link me to the site for Bursons CV. i cant find it on the site im looking at.

http://www.burson.com.au/


They won't list it online, but if you call your local Bursons store they'll be able to help out.
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Re: Triton CV Joints - removal and re-assembly

Postby snowman on Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:41 am

fraz91 wrote:If you have to swap the ring in any case, it's pretty straight-forward. A small (2-3mm) pin punch, a small chisel, a hammer and a little patience is all that's needed. Just make sure you pull it off evenly as they are quite fragile. ;)


damn, i can buy them all except for the patience part..... :lol: :lol: :lol: :oops:

Homer wrote:
There are some members who have gone pretty much everywhere anyone else has and never done a CV and others who after initially breaking possibly pre damaged CV's haven't again - or rarely broken another. Harsh 4wding with just a rear locker seems to see cv's break relatively quickly when a front locker is fitted...




well i agree and disagree :roll: . Homer has ALWAYS been quite a careful wheeler and not too 'bull at a gate' he clearly acknowledges the V6 limitations ;) but in this case it probably is an advantage if you are not a controlled driver. in any case his philosophy goes alright. :D

rear locker or not i think you will break a CV if going hard especially on full droop and full lock. it is NOT a rear locker issue. :roll: :evil: There is no doubt though that the front locker will allow more controlled step climbing. which means less power required. Open, rear, front, or both locked does not make the CV's any stronger it just means you can get further with each upgrade with less power. it is the power and torque that kills them. i think the one exception is a front locker in that you can transfer ALL power through one CV unlike an open front. The difference being when one wheel grips and the other has none the gripped wheel MUST TURN or the full engine load goes into the CV and if you are on the berries it either breaks - or you stall (using clutch and auto operation aside). open diff it will immediately transfer the power to the open wheel and the effort is wasted turning that wheel. That said spinning them hard and then dropping them down doesn't help them as well. Either case can break them, especially with steering lock on. always avoid large steering lock and heavy right foot action.

i broke the only one i have so far because i was mucking around on a dirt bank, almost innocuously as i was not revving hard, but i forgot to put my rear locker in after a restart and ALL the torque went to one front wheel. snappo :cry: . The one CV which has been called 'suspect' when it made a funny noise when trying too hard rear locked is still in and so far OK. go figure. :?

If you are doing serious 'obstacle' 4 wheeling without doubt the best way to protect CV's is to get lockers (yes especially the front but both is better) and be incredibly judicious on the throttle particularly when on some steering lock. the lockers allow you to greatly reduce momentum as you always have a turning tractable wheel instead of moments where the gripping wheel has no turning power via the open diff. being 'crossed up' is the obvious example. even mildly undulating wombat holes (where opposing wheels side to side have one up and the other down causing one front and one rear wheel to spin without traction) can stop an open diff car in its tracks. Lockers will let you drive through without even noticing, and do it much slower. This is not big rock step stuff either.

i think in a straight line the CV's are pretty good but you should have no need for full throttle in very demanding obstacle climbing in any case.

i guess the best part is the swap out, although a pain in the butt, is far easier than some other models and far cheaper than replacing the internals of your diff. :D :D
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Re: Triton CV Joints - removal and re-assembly

Postby Homer on Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:17 am

Yes, what I was meaning is that I believe many CV's break in the first instance after installing a front locker because they have been weakened by the bashing they got when the car was rear locked to get up harsh climbs.

I saw Snowies break and it was a bump at best....

I wasn't saying a rear locker causes CV's to break :roll:

The V6 seems to get up anything without braking the CV's....just does :D
I think the RDL and diesel/V6 "argument" clouds what was useful information on this.

1. If you have been bashing up hills with just a rear locker...you should possibly expect to replace CV's very quickly when you install a front locker (I know some members replaced them anyway for this reason).

2. You don't need any of the engine/torque improvements many people fit to climb where any of the other cars get to and in fact it will possibly (probably) increase your risk of CV failure - as will vehicle weight. If it is possible and easy, turn off ALL chips etc before serious wheeling...they wont help even 1% and remove all non essential equipment/weight.

3. Autos will also aid in protecting CV's under many conditions as the converter slip will reduce shock loads.

4. Be mindful of steering angle and droop when giving it the berries when locked if possible.

5. If you are suffering regular passo side CV failures that you consider "soft" then it is possible you have a potential fitting/taper issue and you might want to investigate it.


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Re: Triton CV Joints - removal and re-assembly

Postby fraz91 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:39 am

Homer wrote:2. You don't need any of the engine/torque improvements many people fit to climb where any of the other cars get to and in fact it will possibly (probably) increase your risk of CV failure - as will vehicle weight. If it is possible and easy, turn off ALL chips etc before serious wheeling...they wont help even 1% and remove all non essential equipment/weight.


Every time I've broken a CV it's been when I haven't disconnected the chip. I now carry the chip blank with me so that when I do go off-road, I pull the chip out while the tyres are airing down. I've gotten up a lot of tracks that guys who are twin-locked have (not saying I didn't struggle in doing so) without snapping a CV, but I do punish the clutch a fair bit in the process. :oops:

Realistically, the extra power/torque is only going to damage the CV quicker, as you'll be putting a lot more load onto a part that wasn't originally designed for it. I've only had to replace one bursons CV in my triton so far thanks to a torn boot, but the CV wasn't clicking or making any of the tell-tale signs when I swapped it. The Drivers CV has only recently started to click at full lock in 4H, so will be getting a spare Drivers CV soon just in case.

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Re: Triton CV Joints - removal and re-assembly

Postby Kegsy on Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:53 am

I dont think its the chips fault with cv damage.

Its the right foot. Throttle control plays the biggest part in cv damage.

Doesnt matter how much power you have, if you drive to the boards something will give.

I actually prefer the chip offroad as it gives a little down low help, less throttle required.

I know garth runs his chip fulltime... no problems. Ive been in the truck with garth on one of the hardest tracks ive ever seen. Throttle control was damn good.

His cvs are damaged, but the life hes gotten out of them is pretty damn good.

There I go giving soft serve a wrap... what has the world come to...:shock:
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Re: Triton CV Joints - removal and re-assembly

Postby Naff on Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:04 pm

Homer wrote:If you're doing the same CV it sounds like you may have a possible issue with them binding properly with the locker?
Is it passenger side? I have seen instances in the lokka where the taper is an issue so the split ring doesn't engage correctly and also on one ARB locker where there was a manufacturing defect (I think) on the same taper that also stopped correct coupling of the CV to the diff.

In all these situations they break (clicking) the CV's very easily...at times within minutes of engaging 4wd :|

In saying all that :roll: :oops: my bet if it's the passo side is it isn't binding correctly ;)



Homer is referring to me here I think. I replaced 2 passenger CVs within a few km before retiring from wheeling on one occasion. The CV was not locating in the spline due to an ARB manufacturing defect. And the location in which the CVS went was not particularly challenging.

Easy way to tell if this is the case is if the CV is difficult to locate in the spline. That's how we came to the conclusion there was something wrong. I followed up with ARB and they confirmed a manufacturing fault in early models... however, being an mn this probably won't be the case. But it might be a place to start looking.
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Re: Triton CV Joints - removal and re-assembly

Postby Mattstruck on Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:48 pm

If you are doing serious 'obstacle' 4 wheeling without doubt the best way to protect CV's is to get lockers (yes especially the front but both is better) and be incredibly judicious on the throttle particularly when on some steering lock. the lockers allow you to greatly reduce momentum as you always have a turning tractable wheel instead of moments where the gripping wheel has no turning power via the open diff. being 'crossed up' is the obvious example. even mildly undulating wombat holes (where opposing wheels side to side have one up and the other down causing one front and one rear wheel to spin without traction) can stop an open diff car in its tracks.

I dont think getting a front locker protects CVs at all.
A front locker allows no give or play AT ALL so the first thing to go is a CV.
In the example above you have a car with opposing wheels off the ground. With Lockers thats a 50/50 split of power to each wheel on the ground. The power is controlled by throttle so that could possibly be 200Nm a wheel (MN only - ML... who cares :lol: )
A little "give" in the drive line will act as a shock absorber and help restrict CV or any other damage for that matter.
Just like a torque converter does on an auto.
-Open diff are the kindest but shit off road
-Open diff with Traction Control (as per MN) is the best compromise for drive line protection and off road ability
-Front locked is the best for off road ability and the harshest on CVs

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Re: Triton CV Joints - removal and re-assembly

Postby Cowboy Dave on Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:00 pm

Matt you seem to have forgotten how to [ quote ] so Homer's post above has blended in with your drivel.

If you are somehow getting 200Nm to a single front wheel then you're doing it wrong.
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Re: Triton CV Joints - removal and re-assembly

Postby fridgie on Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:53 pm

If you drive like a tosser then yes, cv's will break easily..

BUT,

If you drive like a normal person the front locker will ease the cv's strain slightly, sure more torque is put through the cv when lifting up using the one front wheel but as a gradual application has minimal 'shock' load on the cv compared to bash and crash without the locker.

Both my cv's are clicking at close to lock in 4low front locked, my fault though (sometimes the compressor and locker buttons change position on me and I turn off the compressor instead of the locker :oops: :lol: :lol: )

But....... again ;) ,

The front locker will get you places where you are working the car far harder and of course, something has got to give if not treated properly, very different driving styles between front locked and not ;)

As for front locked mn's.... The horrible lag then get up and go will put far more strain on cv's then the smooth, lagless 3.2 in the ML :twisted: :lol:
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Re: Triton CV Joints - removal and re-assembly

Postby MrPlow on Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:57 pm

Alright, to clear a few things up, I have NO performance mods. i always try to take things steady, and am quick to get off the power and back up and try a different line when traction is lost. It is always the passenger CV that goes so i will definitely look into this possible arb locker issue. How can i check this out myself?
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Re: Triton CV Joints - removal and re-assembly

Postby Mattstruck on Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:28 pm

Cowboy Dave wrote:Matt you seem to have forgotten how to [ quote ] so Homer's post above has blended in with your drivel.

If you are somehow getting 200Nm to a single front wheel then you're doing it wrong.


What I am saying is its possible to have 200Nm of torque at each wheel in the example given. Im not saying ive done it, anyway how could I possibly know?? :roll:
With a locked diff center and a front Locker it is possible. FACT.
If not, tell me where Im wrong....

With the traction control the application of torque to wheels is variable based on the ASTC ECU output so is like a torque converter. Far more forgiving.
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Re: Triton CV Joints - removal and re-assembly

Postby salt36 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:42 pm

Mattstruck wrote:
Cowboy Dave wrote:Matt you seem to have forgotten how to [ quote ] so Homer's post above has blended in with your drivel.

If you are somehow getting 200Nm to a single front wheel then you're doing it wrong.


What I am saying is its possible to have 200Nm of torque at each wheel in the example given. Im not saying ive done it, anyway how could I possibly know?? :roll:
With a locked diff center and a front Locker it is possible. FACT.
If not, tell me where Im wrong....

With the traction control the application of torque to wheels is variable based on the ASTC ECU output so is like a torque converter. Far more forgiving.
Call ity drivel if you like but I stand by it ;)


Bahaha 200Nm at each wheel ? :lol:
I drive a 2.5 turbo rattler Triton work ute, and the only time it puts out 200Nm is around 4,000 rpm :lol:
It is shocking, and the laaaaag is shocking.....

Poor excuse for an engine IMO.
I agree somewhat though, power will switch from one front wheel to the other in a locked front, but because the fronts are spinning at the same rate, momentum is more likely so the opposing wheel is already turning when it loads up.

An open diff in the same scenario will have opposing wheels spin and then stop, the load on the CV's in this case would be a lot more.....
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Re: Triton CV Joints - removal and re-assembly

Postby Mattstruck on Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:16 pm

What im saying is... :roll: :x
In the example given by Snowie,
let me explain that before I go on: two wheels diagonally off the ground,
with the front locked and center locked you can have 200Nm AT ONE WHEEL.

Engine output: 400Nm
Center diff lock: 50/50 split of power: 400 / 2 = 200Nm

Thats 200 to the front and 200 to the rear. RIGHT?

With a front locked and one wheel off the ground thats all the fronts distributed power (50% of engine output) to one wheel (or CV).
Thats also all 50% of power to the rear wheel if the rears locked as well.

50% of engine power on ONE CV. No shock absorbtion.
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Re: Triton CV Joints - removal and re-assembly

Postby fridgie on Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:26 pm

We agree with you in theory... But in practice your full throttle (3000rpm+) on 2 wheels... :?

Not many (if any) real world situations where that would happen other than possibly slippery mud where traction would be negated and shock greatly reduced on the cv
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Re: Triton CV Joints - removal and re-assembly

Postby 1tuff_triton on Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:27 pm

I have a factory LH cv which needs a new boot sitting in my shed. I had it replaced cause the boot slid off. I really don't have the skills/time to put a new boot on it to keep it as a spare.

I see there are a few of you guys that are destroying boots on a constant basis so if anyone wants it that can grab it from the hunter it's all yours.
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Re: Triton CV Joints - removal and re-assembly

Postby salt36 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:33 pm

fridgie wrote:We agree with you in theory... But in practice your full throttle (3000rpm+) on 2 wheels... :?

Not many (if any) real world situations where that would happen other than possibly slippery mud where traction would be negated and shock greatly reduced on the cv


I agree as well and like Fridgie said if you are on two wheels then you would not be at full noise or power, unless you drive like me :oops:
But I don't care if I brake something......long as I can get it home to fix.......
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Re: Triton CV Joints - removal and re-assembly

Postby Cowboy Dave on Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:34 pm

Fridgie's close to where I was thinking. If you're locked up and somehow on two wheels you should be barely above idle - no way you'd be near 400Nm at that point in my view. If you are, then like I said somewhere else, you're doing it wrong.
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Re: Triton CV Joints - removal and re-assembly

Postby salt36 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:34 pm

1tuff_triton wrote:I have a factory LH cv which needs a new boot sitting in my shed. I had it replaced cause the boot slid off. I really don't have the skills/time to put a new boot on it to keep it as a spare.

I see there are a few of you guys that are destroying boots on a constant basis so if anyone wants it that can grab it from the hunter it's all yours.


That's a generous offer mate 8-)
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Re: Triton CV Joints - removal and re-assembly

Postby 1tuff_triton on Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:38 pm

salt36 wrote:
1tuff_triton wrote:I have a factory LH cv which needs a new boot sitting in my shed. I had it replaced cause the boot slid off. I really don't have the skills/time to put a new boot on it to keep it as a spare.

I see there are a few of you guys that are destroying boots on a constant basis so if anyone wants it that can grab it from the hunter it's all yours.


That's a generous offer mate 8-)
There's no point in it just sitting in a box in the garage when it could be put to use
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Re: Triton CV Joints - removal and re-assembly

Postby snowman on Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:39 pm

homer and CD aside there probably are not too many here i have not been with who have not hit something at full noise. :lol: :lol: :lol:

we learned that the hard way. :roll:
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Re: Triton CV Joints - removal and re-assembly

Postby snowman on Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:40 pm

1tuff_triton wrote:
salt36 wrote:
1tuff_triton wrote:I have a factory LH cv which needs a new boot sitting in my shed. I had it replaced cause the boot slid off. I really don't have the skills/time to put a new boot on it to keep it as a spare.

I see there are a few of you guys that are destroying boots on a constant basis so if anyone wants it that can grab it from the hunter it's all yours.


That's a generous offer mate 8-)
There's no point in it just sitting in a box in the garage when it could be put to use


Tony might be keen on that one mate. can i reserve it for him? he drives through your way a bit.
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Re: Triton CV Joints - removal and re-assembly

Postby ag9111 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:51 pm

Kegsy wrote:I know garth runs his chip fulltime... no problems. Ive been in the truck with garth on one of the hardest tracks ive ever seen. Throttle control was damn good.

His cvs are damaged, but the life hes gotten out of them is pretty damn good.

There I go giving soft serve a wrap... what has the world come to...:shock:


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Re: Triton CV Joints - removal and re-assembly

Postby 1tuff_triton on Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:05 pm

[quote="snowman"][quote="1tuff_triton"][quote="salt36"][quote="1tuff_triton"]I have a factory LH cv which needs a new boot sitting in my shed. I had it replaced cause the boot slid off. I really don't have the skills/time to put a new boot on it to keep it as a spare.

I see there are a few of you guys that are destroying boots on a constant basis so if anyone wants it that can grab it from the hunter it's all yours

Tony might be keen on that one mate. can i reserve it for him? he drives through your way a bit.

Yeah mate. Not a problem. I'm in singleton and work in muswellbrook so can help either way
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