Fixing the overboost issues with the MN 2.5HP

Re: Fixing the overboost issues with the MN 2.5HP

Postby Sharkey on Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:46 pm

Hi Geoff,

I not long got off the phone to the guys at Berrima (not Andrew to my disappointment) and they were very surprised when they heard what had happened. They said that this had not occurred before with my combination of upgrades, of which most of them have been done by them.
However I not long got off the phone to the Mitsubishi Service Manager and he said that the only way to overcome it would be to roll back to the OEM Exhaust of which was going to cost me around $3,000!
He said they never have over-boost problems with vehicles still running the standard exhaust

So go figure!

So my advice to you at this point in time would be to not touch the exhaust but to definitely consider a well known chip for the extra performance. There's probably only a few I would recommend. I've been fairly impressed with the DP Chip since it was fitted so touch wood it stays that way for many years to come.
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Re: Fixing the overboost issues with the MN 2.5HP

Postby NowForThe5th on Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:21 pm

When was the last time someone came on this forum with a blown turbo as a result of high EGTs and standard exhaust?

There may have been one, but I can't remember when. Yet overboost with 3" exhaust seems to happen almost daily?
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Re: Fixing the overboost issues with the MN 2.5HP

Postby coughy on Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:04 pm

i was getting overboost issues on a stock exhaust and a 3" so they full of it
i have had a remap and the tuners have fixed my overboost issue and i run 25psi all day mashed to the wall
so it is a specific car issue

mmal are head in the sand with this and dont wont to know about it

oh and the roll back of the exhaust is absolutley crap and a dealer with no idea on the situation it will still do it, ask the remap tuners if they can just do a overboost fix was told about $250 to do so

as i stated mine no more over boost even if i push it hard up the steep hills with a 2t trailer so they have fixed it
mine limped nilly every week loaded or not stock or mod exhaust

wait till it limps while going up a hill/range with a b/double up your clacker with the family in the car then u will know the meaning of pissed of
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Re: Fixing the overboost issues with the MN 2.5HP

Postby Sharkey on Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:49 pm

Hi Coughy,

The truck is booked in with Berrima Diesel just after the holiday break so it will be interesting to hear they have to say once they've got it up on the Dyno again.

Where did you get your remap done?

If you were in my situation than what would be your next course of action? I'm definitely not going to go down the path of rolling back to the original OEM exhaust.
This is the first time it's ever occurred and I've had the Chip and Exhaust in situ now for just on 12 months so it's taken a little while to appear unless something else is going on.

Any recommendations you have would be muchly appreciated other than this I'm just hoping Berrima Diesel can resolve the issue early next month.

Cheers,

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Re: Fixing the overboost issues with the MN 2.5HP

Postby coughy on Fri Dec 16, 2016 4:22 pm

imho i think that u have a sensor which has a bit of wear as in the fact that a computer only sees what the values are given....
i see this at work all of the time

lets say that the computer is looking for a voltage threshold of 4.55v but now the sensor is getting some wear or load on it it is now seeing 4.57v this is a enuff to piss it of as the computer cant re calibrate itself it is looking for 4.55 not 4.57 so it has a hissy fit and codes / limps out it cant relearn like a human can

i have changed my map/ and maf sensors got better but still not perfect

it is inside that ecu the parameters for the cars sensors needs a tweak
since i have had mine done not 1 overboost issue at all and i have a constant 25psi of boost with the initall spike to 30psi then drops to 25psi

so if me i would ask the tuners can they change the parameters for the boost issues as they can do it but if they will just do that with out a remap i dont know if they can or will ????

see what berrima say first

but yer no to the stock exhaust
the bigger fuel tank is a extra load that wasnt there before

do you have a dyno sheet from them for the first time?? and if not ask this time for the sheet with afr and boost
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Re: Fixing the overboost issues with the MN 2.5HP

Postby coughy on Fri Dec 16, 2016 4:23 pm

oh and my tuners where ultimate diesel tuners here in brizzy

where are u???
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Re: Fixing the overboost issues with the MN 2.5HP

Postby Sharkey on Fri Dec 16, 2016 4:33 pm

I live in Canberra.

And I do have the original Dyno printout, but yes the only difference this time round is the long range tank.

Anyway hopefully Berrima Diesel can sort it out once and for all because this is going to annoy me until it's completely gone.
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Re: Fixing the overboost issues with the MN 2.5HP

Postby srb on Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:15 pm

Firstly welcome to the "too much air" club, Sharkey.

Your truck has all the symptoms of getting too much air volume... It's the combined result of your larger exhaust and more fuel from chip. Not actually over boost pressure.

It's unlikely your tuner will reproduce it on a dyno and they'll probably just back the fuel and boost off to limit it from happening... But it will probably still do it under extreme conditions such as towing.

At least you now know the conditions that triggers the cel. For safety you can lift your foot off the accelerator for a split second every 10sec when you're hard up it. This resets the time out in the ecu.

I do know there's a permanent fix coming soon from SPVI.
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Re: Fixing the overboost issues with the MN 2.5HP

Postby Sharkey on Sat Dec 17, 2016 5:49 am

Thanks for the feedback SRB, I will be adjusting my acceleration technique from here on when cruising up the big hills however at the end of the day there really should be a permanent fix to all of this and from what I'm reading some of the other Triton owners have managed to overcome this issue.

As I mentioned, this is the first time this code has ever popped up and this comes almost 12 months after I've had the DP Chip/Exhaust (BERRIMA Package Combo).

Can you please elaborate more on the 'permanent fix coming soon from SPVI', because this sounds somewhat promising. Excuse the dumb question but who or what is SPVI? You also mention too much air so what if I were to turn the snorkel ram around 180 degrees, would this help the situation by restricting some of the air?

You would think that of all companies, Berrima should be able to diagnose this and then apply the permanent fix themselves without compromising anything else.
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Re: Fixing the overboost issues with the MN 2.5HP

Postby Stoneman on Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:54 am

I've had 3" for years without problems and I drive with loads all the time

I wouldn't be putting nothing on nothing unless someone can explain the problem without making it even more confusing than it is already

Get the info from someone that actually knows what their talking about and not just repeating something they have read

I agree with coughy there is something wrong somewhere...
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Re: Fixing the overboost issues with the MN 2.5HP

Postby ag9111 on Sat Dec 17, 2016 8:21 am

Srb's vehicle has been a test mule for SPVI over the years.
He's qualified
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Re: Fixing the overboost issues with the MN 2.5HP

Postby RHKTriton on Sat Dec 17, 2016 8:31 am

Pending the age/km on the vehicle, it may be worth checking that the vanes in the turbo are moving freely.

With VGT setups there's more hardware in the exhaust stream than the simple waste gated setups.
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Re: Fixing the overboost issues with the MN 2.5HP

Postby ag9111 on Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:08 am

Srb's vehicle has been a test mule for SPVI over the years.
He's qualified
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Re: Fixing the overboost issues with the MN 2.5HP

Postby Cowboy Dave on Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:02 am

Berrima won't fix it. It's the exhaust.

Yes some random vehicles will do it stock but that's no use to you. Yes some cars with 3 inches haven't done it, but again that's of no use (or relevance) to you.

Turning the snorkel won't help.

Coughy's fix involves an ECU reflash but as you've already gone the chip route that doesn't seem a likely path for you.

SPVI is a reference to SPV industries. You'll also see references to and posts by Tony in this thread and on the forum. SPVI is Tony's business.

Tony sells a Dawes valve solution at the moment which fixes overboost for a majority of users (when correctly calibrated and set up anyway).

There is an electronic solution on the horizon but I'm not sure I'd class its arrival as imminent.
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Re: Fixing the overboost issues with the MN 2.5HP

Postby srb on Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:56 am

CD is correct.

There are a few causes for the overboost code. It can be triggered from latency of electronic over vacuum boost solenoid, especially when fuel and boost have been altered. The use of a Dawes valve puts an end to that.

Another cause can be larger exhausts causing more volumetric airflow. This can only be fixed with an electronic mod or rewriting the ecu parameters.

Some guys will bang on all day that it has nothing to do with larger exhausts because their vehicles have never thrown a code?... That can only be put down to not all vehicles being the same. Variations in wiring loom resistance, voltages, sensors, engine components ect ect.. Sometimes you get lucky with the right combination.

Fact is if you throw more air down its guts you'll increase the chance of having throwing an overboost limp mode. Going with higher flow exhausts you really need to be careful as it can create a seriously dangerous situation on road.

Manufactures of aftermarket exhausts should really warn their customers of the possible dangers... But reality is they don't know they're causing it.
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Re: Fixing the overboost issues with the MN 2.5HP

Postby BillMcQuade on Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:12 pm

srb wrote:CD is correct.

There are a few causes for the overboost code. It can be triggered from latency of electronic over vacuum boost solenoid, especially when fuel and boost have been altered. The use of a Dawes valve puts an end to that.

Another cause can be larger exhausts causing more volumetric airflow. This can only be fixed with an electronic mod or rewriting the ecu parameters.

Some guys will bang on all day that it has nothing to do with larger exhausts because their vehicles have never thrown a code?... That can only be put down to not all vehicles being the same. Variations in wiring loom resistance, voltages, sensors, engine components ect ect.. Sometimes you get lucky with the right combination.

Fact is if you throw more air down its guts you'll increase the chance of having throwing an overboost limp mode. Going with higher flow exhausts you really need to be careful as it can create a seriously dangerous situation on road.

Manufactures of aftermarket exhausts should really warn their customers of the possible dangers... But reality is they don't know they're causing it.


True, there are a number of causes. In addition to your outlined causes some of them are also related to the VGT actuator, which can get tired, and actually allow a momentary overboost condition, which will cause a limp. I have also seen one vehicle which significantly reduced the boost ramp from a very unrestricted, short exhaust, and it would spool quicker than the actuator could control the vanes. Instant limp.

The 3" exhaust has always been a lucky-dip, some have no issues, some have massive issues. I was lucky with mine, I never had a problem. The bottom line with the 3" exhaust is that it is virtually worthless as a performance item There is literally a couple of kW difference between OEM and 3" (dyno proven). Unless you are really flogging your EGTs from towing big loads, there is no value in fitting it. An EGT guage in the standard exhaust is a worthy investment for tuned/chipped vehicles, and if you see high temps, then this might justify the fitment of the 3" pipe.

The only other benefit is that some of the 3" systems are quieter than standard, which I personally prefer.

You are bang on with the comment about the manufacturers, 3" tube was chosen purely as a cost and marketing exercise, so they should post a disclaimer on their products.
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Re: Fixing the overboost issues with the MN 2.5HP

Postby Cowboy Dave on Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:06 pm

Spot on as usual Bill.

Srb is using big words to confuse me. He succeeded.
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Re: Fixing the overboost issues with the MN 2.5HP

Postby Stoneman on Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:46 pm

I would like to see someone be able to replicate it
Not just by driving up a hil, but actually find what's doing it

If for example it's the actuator, surely a valve could be made to replicate it and make it do it for testing?
Why can't it be replicated on a DYNO?
Or find the culprit sensor trick it and see what happens (monitoring everything else of course)

Vacuum,boost,fuel pressure can be logged and throttle position.
There has to be a way of isolating the issue....but from what I read it can't be yet or hasn't been shared

I understand how conclusions are made with circumstances outlined but it has to be able to be isolated, or why can't it be?

Out of curiously what sort of performance difference is seen with different size exhaust and what details are available to support it?
There is just not enough info IMO to say it's a ECU tolerance fault or it would simply be wider spread

I don't believe nor have faith that MM know as much as DENSO does and is why MM are likely not to know anything!
A lot of the info in the ECU would be intellectual property only privldged to DENSO not MM
MM gets minimal control IMO
I tend to think a lot of cars are put together using catalogues from carpart manufactured than adopted to the model and tested tuned with what's made available depending on costs which would include some of that intellectual property...I don't know
And just maybe the MM tech aren't quite up to the selection task

On a side note does it have something to do with the overheating campaign?

It won't be long and these models will be a thing of the past just like the 3.2
So you have to ask yourself is it worth it ..... and of course it will be to some.


Hope I haven't offended anyone.
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Re: Fixing the overboost issues with the MN 2.5HP

Postby Cowboy Dave on Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:57 pm

It's not related to the overheating campaign.

There aren't all that many sensors that read airflow and/or boost so it's not hard to narrow down. But not many end users are going to go to all that trouble are they?

Bill nailed it on the performance issue above. 3 inch on its own makes negligible difference to performance but can help egts if pushing it. MRT have gone on record saying much the same in terms of performance benefits.

I would find it hard to believe that Mitsubishi wouldn't have an intimate knowledge of all the ins and outs of the stuff they are using to build their cars.
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Re: Fixing the overboost issues with the MN 2.5HP

Postby Stoneman on Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:15 pm

Cowboy Dave wrote:It's not related to the overheating campaign.

There aren't all that many sensors that read airflow and/or boost so it's not hard to narrow down. But not many end users are going to go to all that trouble are they?

Bill nailed it on the performance issue above. 3 inch on its own makes negligible difference to performance but can help egts if pushing it. MRT have gone on record saying much the same in terms of performance benefits.

I would find it hard to believe that Mitsubishi wouldn't have an intimate knowledge of all the ins and outs of the stuff they are using to build their cars.


I hear you Dave

But I beg to differ as it would explain for one why the challenger auto can't be sorted out with the torque converter and over heating
Just trying to keep an open mind here

Why could it not have a connection to the campaign....again I'm just thinking out of the box
If you can explain by all means do so.

And obsolutley it makes sense to isolate the problem for correct diagnosis, I just don't simply believe that every car is that much "different" to each other. Yes they are but not the way it's being made out to be, or a production line just couldn't be achieved unless they are witin a toloerence that gets tuned out with the software made available
If the production line is not to blame
It comes down to sensors and wiring lumes and all can be tested!
If we have been chasing this issue for this many years with so many experts with no answer
It doesn't make any sense at all that no would go to the trouble....obviously someone is!? No?

To think MM have all control could be considered a little nieve....but you could be right but the problems are there, so really not much evidence to say they do
Also explain why we get updates and not diagnosises? Again thinking outside the box

You need to keep an open mind Dave rather than think one man only has the answer ;)

The 3" is just a pissing contest in my mind :lol:
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Re: Fixing the overboost issues with the MN 2.5HP

Postby Stoneman on Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:25 pm

Cowboy Dave wrote:It's not related to the overheating campaign.

There aren't all that many sensors that read airflow and/or boost so it's not hard to narrow down. But not many end users are going to go to all that trouble are they?

Bill nailed it on the performance issue above. 3 inch on its own makes negligible difference to performance but can help egts if pushing it. MRT have gone on record saying much the same in terms of performance benefits.

I would find it hard to believe that Mitsubishi wouldn't have an intimate knowledge of all the ins and outs of the stuff they are using to build their cars.



To be honest Dave is so typical of anyone that has a different opinion is soon shot down here...... :roll:

Really it gets a bit old
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Re: Fixing the overboost issues with the MN 2.5HP

Postby Stoneman on Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:34 pm

And I want to call out SBR, BILL,NFTF and DAVE the forum owner

You blokes are what I call Aussie blokes who don't walk around with a glass jaw

I'm sorry we got off on the wrong foot but your PM's where greatly appreciated and gave me confidence that the NEWTRITON forum is about people sharing there knowledge and experience and not about trying persuade people either way
It's healthy to open topics so we can all learn

Just a thanks for at least speaking in a decent way despite our differences with our correspondence with each other

One day we might get to cross paths but it's humbling to know guys like you are out there

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Re: Fixing the overboost issues with the MN 2.5HP

Postby Cowboy Dave on Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:10 pm

Not too sure what you're on about above mate. You're as free as the next man to go and work it out. When your speculation is likely to be wrong I try to be helpful by steering you in the right direction and you then talk about being shot down?

Can't win can I?

So this time I'll leave you to waste your own time rather than try to explain in case you find me too patronising or something.
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Re: Fixing the overboost issues with the MN 2.5HP

Postby Stoneman on Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:05 pm

I don't have any overboost problems :roll:

Sorry for thinking out side the box!

"Can't win with me"? Maybe you should of thought of that with your PM's you sent....

Seriously I can't believe your a moderator/admin what ever you want to call it.

I haven't had touch my truck since removing the chip it chip :D

But I did get a new motor......wonder if that was the chip :?: :lol:

Just give it rest Dave we all have different opinions and I can say mine without having you shot them down or anyone else for that matter

It's just going straight back to when Chris locked it...and I don't want a repeat of that, so your on your own.

I know one thing! And that is, you don't have the qualifications either way to shot me down.

i don't know what your back ground is but your people skills are terrible.
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Re: Fixing the overboost issues with the MN 2.5HP

Postby NowForThe5th on Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:21 pm

Stoneman wrote:It's just going straight back to when Chris locked it...and I don't want a repeat of that,


Exactly. Which is why it will stop. Immediately.
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