Random Triton IFS ravings

[AussieTriton]

I'm interested to see where this thread goes.

Just a couple of points, most states will not allow lifts over 2" to be engineered on IFS vehicles. That is one of the reasons why we have stopped designing bigger lift kits.

Long travel kits are good but mainly designed for desert racing and jumping. A lot of the kits in the states are well designed but illegal in Australia. A common reason is because they extend the wheel track beyond 50mm which in most cases, can not be engineered.

The track width limit varies between states? 50mm is the maximum allowed from "factory". That doesn't mean a wider track cannot be approved by an accredited engineer. Most US long travel kits are not legal here because they use spherical bearings and heim joints predominantly, which are a no-no here for road use. I'm looking at using polyurethane or delrin bushings and factory balljoints/steering joints, etc. IF I feel it's worth my while, and my engineer gives it his stamp of approval, I'll market them IF I can get product liability insurance. The CAD, Solidworks and FEA can be done at work (we have the software for this) and we have a great laser cutting place close by with folding and bending done in-house. All I have to find is a good FG place to make the guard extentions and bedside pieces to cover the track increase.

[AussieTriton]

What hvac said, for all the trouble it sounds like your willing to go through, throw a solid axle under it

If I had a ML, I could do that, but MN Tritons its a whole different ballgame.

[Duck]

A bit out of my depth But keen to see the outcome

[Tom B]

Not necessarily. Unless you can buy a new triton for around/under the 20k mark?

There is no "legal" factory looking live front axle conversion for a MN, with working DSC and ABS PROPERLY programed to work as factory under $20K. If there is, I'd like to see it in the flesh.

Thats why you buy an ML with no abs or asc
But seriously how hard would it be to get Mitsi abs to talk to toyota or nissan parts?? Would it just need recalibration? or custom parts?

[4wd26]

just need the number of teeth on the ABS ring to match the triton ABS
no biggie

people that tell you its a big deal are trying to rip you of $$$$$

it is not really a smart system

[Tom B]

just need the number of teeth on the ABS ring to match the triton ABS
no biggie

people that tell you its a big deal are trying to rip you of $$$$$

it is not really a smart system

So it's really that simple?

[4wd26]

it only sees gap tooth and the number of revolutions has to equal the front

so if you have a larger diameter but have the same number of teeth, the system is ok......

what else can it do- that is the limits of its "smarts"

[Tom B]

So you couldn't run free wheeling hubs as it would show up different speeds (or no speed) at the sensors....

[AussieTriton]

So you couldn't run free wheeling hubs as it would show up different speeds (or no speed) at the sensors....

EDIT: The ABS tone ring is attached to the outer CV bell on the MN, which is always spinning with the wheel. Free-wheel hubs only dis-connect the axle from the hub and ML/MN Tritons cant use free wheel hubs like earlier versions due to the hub/axle interface.

[AussieTriton]

Not necessarily. Unless you can buy a new triton for around/under the 20k mark?

There is no "legal" factory looking live front axle conversion for a MN, with working DSC and ABS PROPERLY programed to work as factory under $20K. If there is, I'd like to see it in the flesh.

Thats why you buy an ML with no abs or asc
But seriously how hard would it be to get Mitsi abs to talk to toyota or nissan parts?? Would it just need recalibration? or custom parts?

I have a MN, that's what I have, so no SAS. The ABS is the easy part, use the Mitsu tone rings and pick-ups and ABS & TC fixed. It's the DSC that's the hard part, as a SAS will make the car dynamics much different, and confuse the crap out of the DSC. It's the cost of testing with a full compliment of sensors on the car and re-calibration of the DSC that's the expensive part to gain engineering certification (read up to $10K).

[AussieTriton]

it only sees gap tooth and the number of revolutions has to equal the front

so if you have a larger diameter but have the same number of teeth, the system is ok......

what else can it do- that is the limits of its "smarts"

Actually, the tone wheel dia. is important. Best to re-use the Mitsu tone rings and pick-ups, so there is no confusion.

[ultimate]

The track width limit varies between states? 50mm is the maximum allowed from "factory". That doesn't mean a wider track cannot be approved by an accredited engineer.

Traditionally we have only be able to increase the track by 30mm. This was increased to 50mm in the National Code of Practice.

You cannot engineer wider track. We have had multiple vehicles fail engineering on GVM upgrades and high lifts because the wheel offset was wrong and over extended the track.

[4wd26]

you could go longer arms and use the Pajero rims +46 offset to minimise the track increase, BUT maximise suspension movement for around town

[Kegsy]

You can do long travel IFS.
You need to narrow the front clip of the chassis, which is illegal in most states.

However if you get the front frame horns of a narrower chassis and re-register your chassis as the narrower section not as a triton its legal...

So you would solve the problem, have long travel with the same wheel track, however technically on paper its not a triton.

Talk to your engineer, it can be done. ;-)

[AussieTriton]

The track width limit varies between states? 50mm is the maximum allowed from "factory". That doesn't mean a wider track cannot be approved by an accredited engineer.

Traditionally we have only be able to increase the track by 30mm. This was increased to 50mm in the National Code of Practice.

You cannot engineer wider track. We have had multiple vehicles fail engineering on GVM upgrades and high lifts because the wheel offset was wrong and over extended the track.

I'm not creating a pissing contest here, but I just spoke to my engineer re: widening a vehicle's track and his words: "If it is built to proper engineering standards, passes the NDT and DT and the bodywork covers the wheels to roadworthy requirements, I'll certify it as legal." (NDT = Non-Destructive Testing & DT = Destructive testing).

[AussieTriton]

You can do long travel IFS.
You need to narrow the front clip of the chassis, which is illegal in most states.

However if you get the front frame horns of a narrower chassis and re-register your chassis as the narrower section not as a triton its legal...

So you would solve the problem, have long travel with the same wheel track, however technically on paper its not a triton.

Talk to your engineer, it can be done. ;-)

No need to re-register it, the VIN is on the rear chassis rail. Its much easier to move the pivot points than narrow the frame rails. Both would require the rack to be shortened to prevent bump steer.

[Kegsy]

Has nothing to do with the Vin number, its about exploiting the loop hole in the law regarding chassis narrowing.

Less restriction on widening of a chassis

And wheel track restrictions...

[MrPlow]

So you couldn't run free wheeling hubs as it would show up different speeds (or no speed) at the sensors....

EDIT: The ABS tone ring is attached to the outer CV bell on the MN, which is always spinning with the wheel. Free-wheel hubs only dis-connect the axle from the hub and ML/MN Tritons cant use free wheel hubs like earlier versions due to the hub/axle interface.

so if the abs ring was attached to the brake assembly, therefore constantly turning, you could run free wheeling hubs on said SAS?

[AussieTriton]

So you couldn't run free wheeling hubs as it would show up different speeds (or no speed) at the sensors....

EDIT: The ABS tone ring is attached to the outer CV bell on the MN, which is always spinning with the wheel. Free-wheel hubs only dis-connect the axle from the hub and ML/MN Tritons cant use free wheel hubs like earlier versions due to the hub/axle interface.

so if the abs ring was attached to the brake assembly, therefore constantly turning, you could run free wheeling hubs on said SAS?

Yep. Attaching the tone ring to the hub will allow ABS to work and free wheel hubs.

[motoz]

Chapmans racing Pajero front end.



Über

[Kegsy]

Scary I can only imagine what that goes through

Any more pics? or a link?

[MrPlow]

so if the abs ring was attached to the brake assembly, therefore constantly turning, you could run free wheeling hubs on said SAS?[/quote]
Yep. Attaching the tone ring to the hub will allow ABS to work and free wheel hubs.[/quote]


Any idea what the internal diameter of the tone ring is?

[4wd26]

the tone ring can be easily removed from a busted cv.
it fits on via friction

will see if I can get a measurement today- I actually have a couple of busted cv's here and a tone ring that has been removed. can be refitted to ML triton glx cv's (as the early model glx did not come with ABS )

[Tom B]

Any idea what the internal diameter of the tone ring is?

Doubt it will fit your application mate.

You'll need an abs relocation kit to move the ring to the hub, as with manual hubs the cvs won't turn rendering abs useless

Marks adapters should have something

[AussieTriton]

Any idea what the internal diameter of the tone ring is?

Doubt it will fit your application mate.

You'll need an abs relocation kit to move the ring to the hub, as with manual hubs the cvs won't turn rendering abs useless

Marks adapters should have something

Uhm, manual hubs WONT fit a ML or MN. If you are planning a SAS on a MN, then you will need to fit the MN tone ring to the back of the hub and position the sensor as on the Mitsu knuckle to retain ABS. If you have a ML, this isn't necessary.