Random Triton IFS ravings

Random Triton IFS ravings

Postby AussieTriton on Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:05 pm

I’m gonna weigh into the discussion re: spacers, lift coils, shocks etc. Some of the info supplied here is very good, but some areas haven’t been explained fully or correctly. Some of this will already be covered in other topics, but there are some grey areas that need clearing up and I’ll begin by explaining most of this as simply as possible. Feel free to correct me or sh*tcan me as you will.
First, some generic terms I will use:
Using factory upper and lower control arms, the travel window at the hub will be 0% @ full bump (compression) and 100% will be full extension, both minus the rubber bump stops (metal to metal contact).
When I refer to “General” or “Generally”, I will mean a flexible application to a number of vehicles/manufacturers.

OK.
First, in order to keep this simple, I won’t go into too much detail of the Triton IFS, as most of us already know what we are dealing with. There are a few things that are specific to this and the main ones are the limited amount of travel, how best to use this and how do we go about improving it.

SPACERS:
Spacers have their place in this discussion, but probably not for the right reasons. I’ll explain. Imagine a arc of travel that the A arm IFS the Triton has travels through from bump to extension. Bump = 0% and Extension = 100% (remember, no rubber bump stops). Generally, MOST manufacturers run ride height at approx. 45 to 60% in that window on their IFS. Adding bull bars/winches, etc. will change that as weight is added. Generally, harder rate/longer springs/torsion bars are used to bring the ride height back to factory or a little higher. The factory damper has a certain window of travel, dictated by the length of the stem and body (piston chamber) length. This is designed to fit into that arc of travel I mentioned previously, with a few mm of extra travel available at both 0 and 100%. That way, the frame mounted bump stops prevent anything from going solid anywhere in the travel window.
Now, insert the spacer. Placing a spacer at the top of the coil strut ass’y moves the dampers travel range into a different position in the IFS’s travel arc. A small (20 – 25mm) spacer is all that is needed to bring the 0% value of the damper right up to (and sometimes exceeding) the 0% value of the IFS. IF you are lucky, the difference will be absorbed by the rubber bushing(s) at the top and bottom of the damper. Now insert a larger (35 – 50mm) spacer and you start to get the picture. NOW, the dampers travel value is in a completely different position and now interferes with the IFS travel value. When the damper reaches 0%, the IFS is still at 15 – 20% and something has to give. The first big hit shears through the lower damper pivot bushing at the LCA (lower control arm) mounting bolt and crushes out the rubber bushings at the top. This gives a few % but now its MTM (metal to metal). The next big hit fully compresses the factory bump stop and the damper is past 0% and into self destruct. USUALLY, the lower bushing ring shears off the damper body and suddenly, no suspension. I’ve personally seen broken lower damper mountings and bolts, bent/broken LCAs and ball joints, bent frame mounts and frames and all manner of destruction resulting from using a spacer and the damper going solid. If I’ve missed anything here, feel free to add on.

LIFT SPRINGS:
Do the same thing as spacers, except the position of the damper travel value doesn’t change in relation to the IFS travel arc. However, the ride height is now in the 75 – 90% of the IFS travel arc and the droop travel has been dramatically reduced. That’s the trade-off with any kind of lift. Without modifying the bumps stops on the frame, we only have a limited window of travel to use.

When faced with limited travel, my policy has always been to have the best QUALITY travel I can get. That means find the BEST dampers I can afford, paired with the best coil rate I require for my application. Ultimate appears to have this well worked out, and full credit to them.

OPTIONS:
Not many, I’m afraid. Stefanos’ idea with the modified UCA’s has merit, but for Aussie roads and insurance, unless someone comes up with a fully compliant conversion, it’s outlaw time (run them if you dare). One option is to CAREFULLY move the UCA bump stop down on the frame 10mm and make it look as factory as possible. That will gain a small improvement in droop, allowing a safety margin on the lower BJ and outer CV. I’m a big fan of FOX Racing Shox. A 2.0 or 2.5 coil over in the correct length will enhance travel and damping, with the option of almost infinite tuning of the valve pack on the piston. FOX dampers are rebuildable and their tunablility and could enhance the IFS ‘performance to new heights. The ability to SEPERATELY valve compression and rebound (extension) gives a lot of new possibilities.
The last option is go wider. Longer UCAs and LCAs are available for Slobota, Missan, etc in USA, as well as several other local and imported small trucks over there. I personally would shy away from anything suspension wise made in Thailand, due to quality concerns with the welding I’ve seen on some of those parts.
My plans? Assuming MMAL walk away from my warranty, the sky is the limit. I’m looking at FOX 2.0 remote res coil-overs for the front, with Hypercoil springs and dual limit straps (plan to remove the factory UCA bump stop). I pair of FOX 2.5 3 tube bypass remote res dampers for the rear with softer multileaf spring packs and limit straps for smooth travel. Who knows? Later I might start building a 3” wider long travel front IFS kit for mine and see what happens? I’ll use steel 50mm spacers on the rear wheels to bring them out and maybe even make some plugs for wider guards and bedsides. I’m crazy enough to try. :D
PS: Forgive me if I rambled a bit. I’m 1 week out of gall bladder removal and the meds do screw me up a little :P
AussieTriton
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:21 pm


 

Re: Randon Triton IFS ravings

Postby macca002 on Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:10 pm

If you are looking at more movement from your lifted truck in the front, then you also need to factor in a way of dropping your diff to return CV angles.

Also - if you do go into all of this effort of doing this (and I would love to see it done), please dont skimp out at the end and go wheel spacers.

Sunny rims are less than $100 each, and you can get them in any offset you can dream up ;)
User avatar
macca002
 
Posts: 1334
Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 5:58 pm
Location: Darwin, NT

Re: Randon Triton IFS ravings

Postby AussieTriton on Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:21 pm

macca002 wrote:If you are looking at more movement from your lifted truck in the front, then you also need to factor in a way of dropping your diff to return CV angles.

Also - if you do go into all of this effort of doing this (and I would love to see it done), please dont skimp out at the end and go wheel spacers.

Sunny rims are less than $100 each, and you can get them in any offset you can dream up ;)


I plan on some nice Methods or KMCs from the States, not billy cart wheels. :lol: :lol: Spacers would only be temporary, until I could find appropriate gears for the front diff, then build a disc brake fabricated full floater 9" for it.
The CVs would be fine with a moderate lift, and with the long travel A arms, with longer axles they will move in lesser arcs v inches of travel compared to stock. :D
AussieTriton
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:21 pm

Re: Random Triton IFS ravings

Postby mattz on Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:21 am

You've really lost me with your explanation.
What are you trying to achieve? More suspension travel (up or down) or higher ride height?
You are also talking about not doing some things because that aren't legal then on the other hand you are talking doing some illegal mods.
Are you trying to keep it legal or don't care?

You aren't going to achieve any higher lift (if that's what your trying to do) than what is readily available now, with out having to reduce the cv angles. Otherwise you'll be replacing drive shafts every 5mins
THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A MAN AND A BOY IS
THE PRICE OF HIS TOYS
User avatar
mattz
 
Posts: 7101
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:26 pm
Location: Mornington Peninsula vic

Re: Random Triton IFS ravings

Postby hvac guy on Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:35 am

Solid axel conversion in the front would fix it. :D
I AM THE ONE WHO KNOCKS.
User avatar
hvac guy
Platinum Subscriber
 
Posts: 2440
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:21 pm
Location: greenbank,qld

Re: Random Triton IFS ravings

Postby Tom B on Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:41 am

What hvac said, for all the trouble it sounds like your willing to go through, throw a solid axle under it
No more Triton....

Now where did I leave that Patrol ;)
User avatar
Tom B
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:28 pm
Location: SE, QLD

Re: Random Triton IFS ravings

Postby macca002 on Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:42 am

I think to avoid breaking CV's AussieTriton has mentioned going a longer wheel track - so longer UCA and LCA's, longer CV's, longer Tierods, etc? That is, if they are actually available to buy either from Asia or US. No doubt if you throw enough cashmoney at something, someone will deliver. Same would apply with a SAS conversion - which would probably be easier to source parts for and worry about ABS sensors later :?

But I do have to admit that I am also a little bit confused with some of the stuff posted earlier, but I am sure 'AT' can explain a little further 8-)
User avatar
macca002
 
Posts: 1334
Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 5:58 pm
Location: Darwin, NT

Re: Random Triton IFS ravings

Postby jop on Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:46 am

So he's building this?
Click to view larger picture
User avatar
jop
 
Posts: 5293
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: Redlands,Brisbane, QLD

Re: Random Triton IFS ravings

Postby macca002 on Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:56 am

From what I can tell - but no IRS
User avatar
macca002
 
Posts: 1334
Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 5:58 pm
Location: Darwin, NT

Re: Random Triton IFS ravings

Postby Tom B on Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:56 am

Ooh shiny atlas :)
I'm guessing that's chapmans desert buggy??
No more Triton....

Now where did I leave that Patrol ;)
User avatar
Tom B
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:28 pm
Location: SE, QLD

Re: Random Triton IFS ravings

Postby AussieTriton on Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:48 am

mattz wrote:You've really lost me with your explanation.
What are you trying to achieve? More suspension travel (up or down) or higher ride height?
You are also talking about not doing some things because that aren't legal then on the other hand you are talking doing some illegal mods.
Are you trying to keep it legal or don't care?

You aren't going to achieve any higher lift (if that's what your trying to do) than what is readily available now, with out having to reduce the cv angles. Otherwise you'll be replacing drive shafts every 5mins

Thank you, Captain Obvious. :D Please re-read my post, I'm not trying to acheive anything, just offering an opinion.
Last edited by AussieTriton on Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
AussieTriton
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:21 pm

Re: Random Triton IFS ravings

Postby AussieTriton on Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:49 am

hvac guy wrote:Solid axel conversion in the front would fix it. :D

And render the thing completely useless. The amount of work and money to legally fit a live front axle would buy me a new Triton.
AussieTriton
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:21 pm

Re: Random Triton IFS ravings

Postby AussieTriton on Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:53 am

macca002 wrote:I think to avoid breaking CV's AussieTriton has mentioned going a longer wheel track - so longer UCA and LCA's, longer CV's, longer Tierods, etc? That is, if they are actually available to buy either from Asia or US. No doubt if you throw enough cashmoney at something, someone will deliver. Same would apply with a SAS conversion - which would probably be easier to source parts for and worry about ABS sensors later :?

But I do have to admit that I am also a little bit confused with some of the stuff posted earlier, but I am sure 'AT' can explain a little further 8-)

You got it. However, the cost to consider a SAS conversion will build and engineer 3 or 4 long travel IFS kits. Anything you want explained, tell me, and I will try to simplify it.
AussieTriton
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:21 pm

Re: Random Triton IFS ravings

Postby Raz89 on Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:53 am

Not necessarily. Unless you can buy a new triton for around/under the 20k mark?
The man who smiles when things go wrong has thought of someone to blame it on.

"Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the world together."
User avatar
Raz89
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:49 pm
Location: Home Hill, North Queensland

Re: Random Triton IFS ravings

Postby AussieTriton on Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:55 am

jop wrote:So he's building this?
Click to view larger picture

Not that fancy, but a legal bolt-on long travel A arm set-up that uses all the factory pivot points.
AussieTriton
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:21 pm

Re: Random Triton IFS ravings

Postby macca002 on Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:56 am

AussieTriton wrote:
hvac guy wrote:Solid axel conversion in the front would fix it. :D

And render the thing completely useless. The amount of work and money to legally fit a live front axle would buy me a new Triton.

What budget are you thinking to legally extend the wheelbase of your 4x4?
I am thinking the cost would be getting close to same/same if you are trying to do it legally.

I would go SAS and 3 or 5 link rear 8-)
User avatar
macca002
 
Posts: 1334
Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 5:58 pm
Location: Darwin, NT

Re: Random Triton IFS ravings

Postby jop on Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:57 am

Thank you, Captain Obvious. :D


Anything you want explained, tell me, and I will try to simplify it


Keep that ^ going and you'll get all the help you need :lol:
User avatar
jop
 
Posts: 5293
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: Redlands,Brisbane, QLD

Re: Random Triton IFS ravings

Postby Tom B on Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:59 am

How much to build and engineer one of these long travel kits??
No more Triton....

Now where did I leave that Patrol ;)
User avatar
Tom B
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:28 pm
Location: SE, QLD

Re: Random Triton IFS ravings

Postby AussieTriton on Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:19 am

jop wrote:
Thank you, Captain Obvious. :D


Anything you want explained, tell me, and I will try to simplify it


Keep that ^ going and you'll get all the help you need :lol:

Go right ahead, I won't be the loser :D
AussieTriton
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:21 pm

Re: Random Triton IFS ravings

Postby AussieTriton on Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:36 am

Tom B wrote:How much to build and engineer one of these long travel kits??


I'll give you an idea in a few months, once I've built my jigs and work out what's needed to make a set.
AussieTriton
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:21 pm

Re: Random Triton IFS ravings

Postby Tom B on Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:08 am

AussieTriton wrote:
Tom B wrote:How much to build and engineer one of these long travel kits??


I'll give you an idea in a few months, once I've built my jigs and work out what's needed to make a set.


Was just curious to compare to a sas.
Overall I think it's a lot of work to save maybe a few sets of cv's that can be replaced for 200, but good luck, always interesting to see new ways of modifying these vehicles
No more Triton....

Now where did I leave that Patrol ;)
User avatar
Tom B
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:28 pm
Location: SE, QLD

Re: Random Triton IFS ravings

Postby 4wd26 on Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:41 am

well and trully interested in these types of developments.
seems a few here lately are wishing to push the boundaries.

My concern would be sourcing lengthened CV's, would hate to have to get custom built cv's done, recognising that the upper and lower control arms etc are doable by the more experienced persons

Click to view larger picture

I have asked chapman racing for information in the past on there upper and lower control arms and CV information, since they are using the factory mounting points in the above pajero.
Getting Out There
Sucks to be you, glad I bought a 3.2 :o
User avatar
4wd26
Moderator
 
Posts: 8299
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: Bayside Bundy and Monto

Re: Random Triton IFS ravings

Postby ultimate on Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:44 am

I'm interested to see where this thread goes.

Just a couple of points, most states will not allow lifts over 2" to be engineered on IFS vehicles. That is one of the reasons why we have stopped designing bigger lift kits.

Long travel kits are good but mainly designed for desert racing and jumping. A lot of the kits in the states are well designed but illegal in Australia. A common reason is because they extend the wheel track beyond 50mm which in most cases, can not be engineered.
The Team at
Australian Ultimate Suspension Pty. Ltd
Phone: +612 9618 7674
http://www.ultimatesuspension.com.au YouTube Facebook
Designers, Manufacturers and Installers of performance aftermarket suspension for Cars, Trucks and 4wds
User avatar
ultimate
 
Posts: 2380
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:43 pm

Re: Random Triton IFS ravings

Postby Tony81 on Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:40 pm

Here is something that might be of interest not cheap by any means but...

http://www.proformance.com.au/IFS_IRS_i ... _diff.html
User avatar
Tony81
Platinum Subscriber
 
Posts: 593
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:02 am
Location: Warner

Re: Random Triton IFS ravings

Postby AussieTriton on Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:30 pm

Raz89 wrote:Not necessarily. Unless you can buy a new triton for around/under the 20k mark?

There is no "legal" factory looking live front axle conversion for a MN, with working DSC and ABS PROPERLY programed to work as factory under $20K. If there is, I'd like to see it in the flesh. :)
AussieTriton
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:21 pm

Next

Return to Suspension

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 46 guests