KARRMAN DIFF DROP KIT FOR ML MN

[black sabbath]

^^^^not reading your petty excuses or reasons...
I have better things to do with my sunday than sit here listeming to you

[triton_guru]

Im abit confused on how a diff drop kit can be so hard to engineer? Its replacing one cross member and thats all structurally so aslong as the engineer is happy with the quality of the crossmember in terms of thickness of material structual integrity and grade of material used it shouldnt be a problem. I wouldnt worry about upper control arms so much myself or you would end up in the same boat as before you had your diff drop. If you can find a inspector to identify 1 cross member is different wiyhoug making it stupidly obvious like painting it blue haha i wiuld be quite surprised. Im not entirely sure how hard it qould be to engineer but blimely it cant be that bloody hard

[motoz]

It's a shame this thread is getting off the rails.

For years people have been complaining about the lack of options for the Triton. Sure there are a plethora of options for running 2" lift. Some people would like a bit more lift even though the standard geometry will only allow so much. Others want to run 2" lift yet still have full down travel

Finally we've had someone stick his hand into his pocket and bring something to the table. They've been a few false starts, some big noters who promised the world yet failed to even deliver a street map. Some manufacturers who said that its "not viable" the Triton is "too small a market".

Alas we have a product yet the forum seems to delve into the illegal jargon and posts based on hearsay info. This in my opinion just kills it for everyone. You don't see this kind of poo pooing of and of the EGR delete options being sprooked here.

If we keep these threads based on fact, if someone wants to buy one of these kits or go down the path of getting it approved on their vehicle then go for it. Document and post the process and let's get some creditability here.

From my understanding John C imported his own kit from Thailand. Similar to the one the infamous Skiddy had on his MN. The Karrman unit is a different item all together and although I haven't seen one in the fresh, really does look the goods.

FWIW a few of these younger guys are doing great things with these rigs. Some of the options for the rear end available now provide amazing flex on the Triton. I'd rather see well fabricated options available than some of the home hack jobs we've see posted online.

More fact, less fanciful fiction and opinion is in order.

[94MANI]

hahaha, you blokes.. i posted my truck up and included the specs of it and it included the diff drop kit nick gave me to test and not one of you blokes batted an eye lid..

Once you see and install the gear, you would laugh at the quality of the mitsubishi components you pull out to replace with chargers kit.. the quality of chargers sold me alone, when i compared the stock from the karmann i thought to myself, how the hell can mitsi put this shit on, no welds just heat pressed and it was already buckled to [censored] from past trips..


If anyones interested on my experience with it, iv had it in for 3 months now you are more than welcome to ask away.

Build Thread in my Sig.

[triton_guru]

hahaha, you blokes.. i posted my truck up and included the specs of it and it included the diff drop kit nick gave me to test and not one of you blokes batted an eye lid..

Once you see and install the gear, you would laugh at the quality of the mitsubishi components you pull out to replace with chargers kit.. the quality of chargers sold me alone, when i compared the stock from the karmann i thought to myself, how the hell can mitsi put this shit on, no welds just heat pressed and it was already buckled to [censored] from past trips..


If anyones interested on my experience with it, iv had it in for 3 months now you are more than welcome to ask away.

Build Thread in my Sig.

I think you would be the best person to comment on how it has been mate. You will always get criticism just like ive recieved abit from what i have done but i like to put it down to jealousy haha if you can mate take some pictures of the kit installed and if you have the old one still how the difference between them

[94MANI]

It's a shame this thread is getting off the rails.

For years people have been complaining about the lack of options for the Triton. Sure there are a plethora of options for running 2" lift. Some people would like a bit more lift even though the standard geometry will only allow so much. Others want to run 2" lift yet still have full down travel

Finally we've had someone stick his hand into his pocket and bring something to the table. They've been a few false starts, some big noters who promised the world yet failed to even deliver a street map. Some manufacturers who said that its "not viable" the Triton is "too small a market".

Alas we have a product yet the forum seems to delve into the illegal jargon and posts based on hearsay info. This in my opinion just kills it for everyone. You don't see this kind of poo pooing of and of the EGR delete options being sprooked here.

If we keep these threads based on fact, if someone wants to buy one of these kits or go down the path of getting it approved on their vehicle then go for it. Document and post the process and let's get some creditability here.

From my understanding John C imported his own kit from Thailand. Similar to the one the infamous Skiddy had on his MN. The Karrman unit is a different item all together and although I haven't seen one in the fresh, really does look the goods.

FWIW a few of these younger guys are doing great things with these rigs. Some of the options for the rear end available now provide amazing flex on the Triton. I'd rather see well fabricated options available than some of the home hack jobs we've see posted online.

More fact, less fanciful fiction and opinion is in order.

MATE, i could not have said it better myself! once you look at this kit in person, you know it means buisiness.. like i said, its what sold me. i drove from sydney to melbourne to check it out and was sold the first hour i was with charger.

[Cowboy Dave]

Agreed we are getting off track but as usual people are seeing conspiracy theories and so on where there are none.

If you go back in this thread you will see that there was a comment that someone was representing that federal codes trumped state law - which was patently untrue.

You'll also see someone was told by a rego authority in Queensland that diff drops were illegal full-stop.

All of what followed was in response to that, and the sweeping statements from Black Sabbath.

If it could be kept factual we would never get off track like we have in this thread and others. Perhaps that is why no one batted an eyelid in Mani's build thread.

I agree with Motoz in terms of Nick having a go - I also think it's great.

What I don't think is great is people misleading the general public and/or our members as to the legalities or otherwise. If he can get it to market and have it legal - fantastic. If he can get it to market and there are some complexities around the legality - that's also fine provided people know up front what they need to do to make it legal and they can make their own free choices around whether to stay on the right side of the law.

Where we run into problems is if it is not legal and people say it is.

No doubt in due course Nick will get this thing ready and we'll know one way or another. Before that it is probably speculative but there are some indications it won't be a walk in the park.

[charger265]

First off...Well i would like to thank the admin group for their input as always...

I know there are some sore points regarding the relationship between myself and most of the admin/members of this forum as we very rarely see eye to eye..
Mostly due to misguided information being taken as hard facts.
which then leads to a gang up... very much like the way this has proceeded in regard to the misguided posts around the laws regarding diff drops and UCA's

Taking the gospel of a facebook post with a Q&A with QLD roads should not even come into it as its clear the people who were answering these questions did not understand the rules and regulations...
The one thing that i dont quite understand is main group involved like to take the high ground on these discussions and claim to have the facts.. But in reality its another matter...

From what i can see a few of you have been burnt in an open forum where you have no control over the content... The truth comes out in the end and many have either blocked me on facebook or simple avoid me now because of this...

If you or any member of this forum would like to know the hard facts around the laws for each state regarding the diff drop then you should ask the person who has just been through the whole lot. not third hand information from facebook

Trying to derail a product that many business have failed in is just poor form... Im sure things would be different if i was a liked member here...

Thankyou...
This is all i would like to say on this matter...


I hope we can move the discussion to a more positive manor and make sure the triton community has the opportunity to advance their vehicles in a legal and safe way.

[Cowboy Dave]

Umm, so what are the facts?

[charger265]

I have stated the facts in many places..
Here will not be one of them as I no longer wish to be apart of a forum that manipulates content...
And allows members to target misguided information on one product but lets clear violations of the law slip with another (EGR resistor mod)

Thankyou for allowing me to have my say...

[BillMcQuade]

I have stated the facts in many places..
Here will not be one of them as I no longer wish to be apart of a forum that manipulates content...
And allows members to target misguided information on one product but lets clear violations of the law slip with another (EGR resistor mod)

Thankyou for allowing me to have my say...

To be fair, an EGR mod, is illegal. The significant difference is; it doesn't have the potential to affect the safety or stability of the vehicle.

IMHO, people would be genuinely interested in a fully legal diff-drop.

I am well familiar with what it takes to get products engineered, and would be interested in what you have discovered. Perhaps instead of retreating into a defensive position and calling foul, you should state the facts as you see them. A well constructed argument, backed up by documented facts will clearly put the matter to rest. If people shoot you down, why would you care, if what you have to say is factual, it would be their loss.

[triton_guru]

I have stated the facts in many places..
Here will not be one of them as I no longer wish to be apart of a forum that manipulates content...
And allows members to target misguided information on one product but lets clear violations of the law slip with another (EGR resistor mod)

Thankyou for allowing me to have my say...

To be fair, an EGR mod, is illegal. The significant difference is; it doesn't have the potential to affect the safety or stability of the vehicle.

IMHO, people would be genuinely interested in a fully legal diff-drop.

I am well familiar with what it takes to get products engineered, and would be interested in what you have discovered. Perhaps instead of retreating into a defensive position and calling foul, you should state the facts as you see them. A well constructed argument, backed up by documented facts will clearly put the matter to rest. If people shoot you down, why would you care, if what you have to say is factual, it would be their loss.

Im sorry but how would a diff drop affect the stability of a car? It lowers the diff that is all. Fair enough uca have potential but a diff drop does not.

[charger265]

I have stated the facts in many places..
Here will not be one of them as I no longer wish to be apart of a forum that manipulates content...
And allows members to target misguided information on one product but lets clear violations of the law slip with another (EGR resistor mod)

Thankyou for allowing me to have my say...

To be fair, an EGR mod, is illegal. The significant difference is; it doesn't have the potential to affect the safety or stability of the vehicle.

IMHO, people would be genuinely interested in a fully legal diff-drop.

I am well familiar with what it takes to get products engineered, and would be interested in what you have discovered. Perhaps instead of retreating into a defensive position and calling foul, you should state the facts as you see them. A well constructed argument, backed up by documented facts will clearly put the matter to rest. If people shoot you down, why would you care, if what you have to say is factual, it would be their loss.

Not on this forum... no more... I will not be apart of this discussion.

Members of this forum have set out from the start to discredit this product and have tried to tarnish my reputation.
The way content is manipulated and deleted when truths come out is just wrong... The actions of major members here are questionable with their motives and are biased to favoritism.

This is not a forum i wish to have any debate or discussions about any product or subject as for the reasons quoted above...

Please not all posts are screen shot

[explorer.dave]

Another wasted thread gone to the rails
Charger265, you stated early in this thread that you would keep us all up to date and informed of the progress, you didn't You allowed Black Sabbath (OP) to corrupt this thread and are now calling foul of this community for stating facts, as we know them, you could have chimed in at any time yet didn't.
Attacking Tony's EGR mod is simplistic at best, you have your own product, stand up and defend that without drawing others into a mixed discussion.
If you no longer want to be apart of this forum, good, go, but you will be back
FWIW l do hope you have success with your product, just getting a bit tired of this never ending diff drop crap.

[94MANI]

i cant wait to restart this thread in about 6 months after alot have been sold and most of you blokes have em fitted i have 80mm more travel than standard with the ultimate long travel kit, even brendan from ultimate was amazed at the kit.. ah well see you guys on the tracks!

[charger265]

:( Another wasted thread gone to the rails
Charger265, you stated early in this thread that you would keep us all up to date and informed of the progress, you didn't You allowed Black Sabbath (OP) to corrupt this thread and are now calling foul of this community for stating facts, as we know them, you could have chimed in at any time yet didn't.
Attacking Tony's EGR mod is simplistic at best, you have your own product, stand up and defend that without drawing others into a mixed discussion.
If you no longer want to be apart of this forum, good, go, but you will be back
FWIW l do hope you have success with your product, just getting a bit tired of this never ending diff drop crap.

Why should i keep a group of member informed when all they have tried to do is derail the product on other forums and because they were not getting anywhere and have now decided to bring it in house where you have control over the content...

I have already had a comical PM threatening to be banned for telling it like it is...
You have the right to your opinion so why can i? does the truth hurt?

I have no control over who posts here.. and if you ask the admins of this site i rarely if ever log on... I only received a txt msg saying take a look at NTN... the admins will be able to check IP address and login times to verify that i had nothing to do with this junk...

I was not attacking tonys product its a solid product and its be the most reliable product on the market.. If you read it correctly it was not the product i was bringing to attention it was the fact that the members here yourself included are biased in the way you allow products / mods to be portrayed on this forum...

The only reason this thread went off the rails is because one member started it up with a big post... "are diff drops legal?" "NO"

Im tired of the never ending diff drop crap too... the stiddy saga.. dobinsonins thailand sticker job... the whole thing is a joke so trying to get a quality product out there... Its damn hard...
Then to have a group / forum / member that appeared to go out of their way to cloud the legalities of the kits just adds salt to the wounds... so yeah.. it did drag me back out off the wood work...

The product is out there..
its going into cars... If it does not meet your fancy or safety concerns dont buy it...
But im telling you right now if it was not safe or legal i would not be putting my name to it.. just like i said early on... so dont try and tarnish my image or integrity

[BillMcQuade]

Im sorry but how would a diff drop affect the stability of a car? It lowers the diff that is all. Fair enough uca have potential but a diff drop does not.

Any changes to chassis or suspension components have the potential to affect not only the functionality of the ESC, but the overall dynamic of the vehicle. It would be simplistic to assume that you can make any change to a vehicle that doesn't have knock-on effects.

Note that I used the word "potential" in both posts. Until proven otherwise by an engineering signatory, the effects are unknown. The effects of chassis/suspension changes on the functionality of ESC are still a subject of hot debate. Some testing facilities have documented significant improvements to stability, when aftermarket equipment is fitted to certain vehicles. Others have shown significantly degraded performance.

I'm not trying to disparage anyone's product here, just pointing out that it is incorrect to compare a minor change to a non-safety related electronic component, with replacement or modification of chassis/suspension. Anyone with risk assessment/mitigation experience would realise this. More importantly, this comparison is not what the debate is about, an EGR mod will never be legal, whereas changes to the chassis/suspension have a process by which they can be put up for approval.

Once again; I feel that an approved, legal modification would be of great interest. It would be quite an achievement to get these modifications approved, as it would consume a large chunk of capital and time. If I had a product that met these requirements, I would be ready and able to produce the documentation, even if it meant opening myself up to inevitable derision. Some people will never be convinced, and that would be their loss.

I note that all these comments are being screen-shot, but I don't feel that these sort of thinly veiled threats do anything to further the discussion. There are people here that are willing to support a legal, quality product, and it would be churlish to rebuke this support by going down the conspiracy theory path.

[triton_guru]

Im sorry but how would a diff drop affect the stability of a car? It lowers the diff that is all. Fair enough uca have potential but a diff drop does not.

Any changes to chassis or suspension components have the potential to affect not only the functionality of the ESC, but the overall dynamic of the vehicle. It would be simplistic to assume that you can make any change to a vehicle that doesn't have knock-on effects.

Note that I used the word "potential" in both posts. Until proven otherwise by an engineering signatory, the effects are unknown. The effects of chassis/suspension changes on the functionality of ESC are still a subject of hot debate. Some testing facilities have documented significant improvements to stability, when aftermarket equipment is fitted to certain vehicles. Others have shown significantly degraded performance.

I'm not trying to disparage anyone's product here, just pointing out that it is incorrect to compare a minor change to a non-safety related electronic component, with replacement or modification of chassis/suspension. Anyone with risk assessment/mitigation experience would realise this. More importantly, this comparison is not what the debate is about, an EGR mod will never be legal, whereas changes to the chassis/suspension have a process by which they can be put up for approval.

Once again; I feel that an approved, legal modification would be of great interest. It would be quite an achievement to get these modifications approved, as it would consume a large chunk of capital and time. If I had a product that met these requirements, I would be ready and able to produce the documentation, even if it meant opening myself up to inevitable derision. Some people will never be convinced, and that would be their loss.

I note that all these comments are being screen-shot, but I don't feel that these sort of thinly veiled threats do anything to further the discussion. There are people here that are willing to support a legal, quality product, and it would be churlish to rebuke this support by going down the conspiracy theory path.

Do you believe my modifications are legal? And let me tell ya i cut alot of these so called cross members out which are thin pieces of rubbish. The fact of the matter is regardless of whether they are legal or not they still sell extended shackles and lift kits higher than 2 inches. All it means is you have to spend the money yourself and get your car engineered. If you cant afford to do that then dont. My engineer had no problems signing off on the diff drop kit but i wanted to go down a different path but for him to say no problem says to me that hes not that concern about a little crossmemeber thats not doing much more other than holding the front diff.

j think charger should sell his product as is because chances are people who buy it will be running higher than legal lifts and will have to get their car engineered regardless

Its on the owner of car

[BillMcQuade]

Im sorry but how would a diff drop affect the stability of a car? It lowers the diff that is all. Fair enough uca have potential but a diff drop does not.

Any changes to chassis or suspension components have the potential to affect not only the functionality of the ESC, but the overall dynamic of the vehicle. It would be simplistic to assume that you can make any change to a vehicle that doesn't have knock-on effects.

Note that I used the word "potential" in both posts. Until proven otherwise by an engineering signatory, the effects are unknown. The effects of chassis/suspension changes on the functionality of ESC are still a subject of hot debate. Some testing facilities have documented significant improvements to stability, when aftermarket equipment is fitted to certain vehicles. Others have shown significantly degraded performance.

I'm not trying to disparage anyone's product here, just pointing out that it is incorrect to compare a minor change to a non-safety related electronic component, with replacement or modification of chassis/suspension. Anyone with risk assessment/mitigation experience would realise this. More importantly, this comparison is not what the debate is about, an EGR mod will never be legal, whereas changes to the chassis/suspension have a process by which they can be put up for approval.

Once again; I feel that an approved, legal modification would be of great interest. It would be quite an achievement to get these modifications approved, as it would consume a large chunk of capital and time. If I had a product that met these requirements, I would be ready and able to produce the documentation, even if it meant opening myself up to inevitable derision. Some people will never be convinced, and that would be their loss.

I note that all these comments are being screen-shot, but I don't feel that these sort of thinly veiled threats do anything to further the discussion. There are people here that are willing to support a legal, quality product, and it would be churlish to rebuke this support by going down the conspiracy theory path.

Do you believe my modifications are legal? And let me tell ya i cut alot of these so called cross members out which are thin pieces of rubbish. The fact of the matter is regardless of whether they are legal or not they still sell extended shackles and lift kits higher than 2 inches. All it means is you have to spend the money yourself and get your car engineered. If you cant afford to do that then dont. My engineer had no problems signing off on the diff drop kit but i wanted to go down a different path but for him to say no problem says to me that hes not that concern about a little crossmemeber thats not doing much more other than holding the front diff.

j think charger should sell his product as is because chances are people who buy it will be running higher than legal lifts and will have to get their car engineered regardless

Its on the owner of car

Just so we are clear, this is not a personal attack on your vehicle, or the mods that you have made to it. I am glad that you had the integrity to go through the process of a fully engineered conversion. It takes $$$ and effort to achieve, and sadly some people feel that they are above the law, which puts all of our families at risk. I think we have all seen vehicles on the road that wouldn't have a hope in hell of being legal.

Nor am I questioning Charger's right to sell his product, read what I wrote, I support an engineered and legal product.

I don't know what state you are in, but in NSW, if you present your vehicle to an engineer, he is going to want some documentation from the component manufacturer that details the materials and methods of construction on the component. These are usually detailed in the Declaration Of Conformity, which the manufacturer provides with the product, as part of his QA. I 100% agree with you that the onus of legality is on the vehicle owner, however, there needs to be supporting documentation to achieve compliance (I can only comment on the NSW process).

This thread just goes around in circles I was initially sceptical of the manufacturing, however, Charger was able to confirm the efforts that were going into the process, and seemed to have everything sorted.

Statements were made by Charger;

"Just so everyone is aware this kit is not for sale and will not be until approved.

Pre requirements for kit to be sold under my name as the co developer and exclusive Australian distributor
Upper control arms to be 3D parasolid modelled
Under go FEA testing (finite element analysis) Stress testing and strength tests to conform they are stronger than original UCA's
Roll centre and bump steer testing

All of the above will needs to be signed of by VicRoads preferred engineer who specialises in light commercial vehicle modifications"


"Having a background in fabrication and held several welding certificates from pressure pipe Tig/underwater ark/ aircraft ally tig along with an engineering mechanical and material science diploma's i really do understand the importance of safety and quality control. This is why im taking the steps to have every kit sold in Australia inspected by a VicRoads VASS certified engineer and stamped with a serial ID that can be traced back to an engineering report."

Now, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for some substance. We have had others make promises before, but have been disappointed. This new range could be a game-changing product for our vehicles, and the engineering documentation will put the argument to rest.

[c-dale]

:( Another wasted thread gone to the rails
Charger265, you stated early in this thread that you would keep us all up to date and informed of the progress, you didn't You allowed Black Sabbath (OP) to corrupt this thread and are now calling foul of this community for stating facts, as we know them, you could have chimed in at any time yet didn't.
Attacking Tony's EGR mod is simplistic at best, you have your own product, stand up and defend that without drawing others into a mixed discussion.
If you no longer want to be apart of this forum, good, go, but you will be back
FWIW l do hope you have success with your product, just getting a bit tired of this never ending diff drop crap.

Why should i keep a group of member informed when all they have tried to do is derail the product on other forums and because they were not getting anywhere and have now decided to bring it in house where you have control over the content...

I have already had a comical PM threatening to be banned for telling it like it is...
You have the right to your opinion so why can i? does the truth hurt?

I have no control over who posts here.. and if you ask the admins of this site i rarely if ever log on... I only received a txt msg saying take a look at NTN... the admins will be able to check IP address and login times to verify that i had nothing to do with this junk...

I was not attacking tonys product its a solid product and its be the most reliable product on the market.. If you read it correctly it was not the product i was bringing to attention it was the fact that the members here yourself included are biased in the way you allow products / mods to be portrayed on this forum...

The only reason this thread went off the rails is because one member started it up with a big post... "are diff drops legal?" "NO"

Im tired of the never ending diff drop crap too... the stiddy saga.. dobinsonins thailand sticker job... the whole thing is a joke so trying to get a quality product out there... Its damn hard...
Then to have a group / forum / member that appeared to go out of their way to cloud the legalities of the kits just adds salt to the wounds... so yeah.. it did drag me back out off the wood work...

The product is out there..
its going into cars... If it does not meet your fancy or safety concerns dont buy it...
But im telling you right now if it was not safe or legal i would not be putting my name to it.. just like i said early on... so dont try and tarnish my image or integrity

Looks like I have inadvertently started another shit storm with my "big post" that was sharing information from a Q&A session held by the Queensland Department of Transportation and Main Roads in modifying vehicles.

The reason it was shared was because as someone who was keen, and has always been pretty keen to buy a diff drop kit, and whom also happens to live in QLD I was rather shocked at the black and white answer to the question. It seems pretty cut and dry to me BASED ON THE INFORMATION PROVIDED.

Now, just to make it clear, I am in no way rubbishing a product, trying to derail a business or attempting to sully anyones reputation but if one cant share information without someone else getting their knickers in a twist and then being accused of bias what the point of having public forums?

For all the supporters, fan bloody tastic. I hope the product exceeds your expectations. If it does share your experiences. Nick will be greatful for the feedback as he's put in the hard yards to get it here but just remember the 'nay sayers' have just as much right to discuss and question as you have to shout the products awesomeness from the rooftops.

Oh, and before I get accused of being biased and pushing an agenda I run Monster Rides, not Ultimate FFS.

[triton_guru]

I get what your saying c-dale but the reality of it is some of the mods on our cars are infact legal none the less they can become legal. I think we should be finding out how much an engineer would charge to engineer the diff drop. By doing what ive done ive broken a few adrs but one report and they all get waived so who ever is interested in a diff drop get your car engineered and get the lift and tyres done at the same time to make your car completely legal problem solved

[hvac guy]

Wow just wow. Another thread gone to shit.

[NowForThe5th]

Members of this forum have set out from the start to discredit this product and have tried to tarnish my reputation.
The way content is manipulated and deleted when truths come out is just wrong... The actions of major members here are questionable with their motives and are biased to favoritism.

Bullshit. You've had nothing but support for your approach of getting this thing fully engineered and legal. No-one has done or said anything to tarnish your reputation and we (the Moderators) have particularly watched this thread and others to try to stop it from going off track as has now happened. You miss the fact that there is enormous interest in this product if it can be brought to the market and can be fitted legally, which is what you promised, or at least indicated was your intent.

i cant wait to restart this thread in about 6 months after alot have been sold and most of you blokes have em fitted i have 80mm more travel than standard with the ultimate long travel kit, even brendan from ultimate was amazed at the kit.. ah well see you guys on the tracks!

If they come to market as type engineered and able to be fitted legally, then I have no doubt you will be proven correct. If not, well this thread may not even be here.

Why should i keep a group of member informed when all they have tried to do is derail the product on other forums and because they were not getting anywhere and have now decided to bring it in house where you have control over the content...

This forum is NewTriton.net. Let's not confuse it with others. As I said above, you have been given support and encouragement here, please don't bring your problems with other forums here. We can't control what happens in those places, which are known to be feral, at best.

Again, I say that the content of any thread has not been altered other than to protect you and encourage free and open discussion without personal attack.

I have already had a comical PM threatening to be banned for telling it like it is...
You have the right to your opinion so why can i? does the truth hurt?

PMs are Private Messages. Private. Not to be discussed in the open forum. Let's keep it that way.

The only reason this thread went off the rails is because one member started it up with a big post... "are diff drops legal?" "NO"

So now we get to the real crux of the issue.

TMR are the body which enforces the relevant laws and regulations in Queensland. If they say that something is illegal then that's exactly what it is, in Qld at least. There are processes and procedures which may allow something, previously, or even currently thought to be illegal, to be declared as permissable, perhaps with certain provisions. Given that the response to the question on legality was from a TMR representative then that's fairly final, at least at the moment.

Now, if your implication is that the member who posted that Q&A extract was trolling then the answer is no, he wasn't. It's a reasonable question to ask of someone who has said that a diff drop kit can be made legal. Particularly so when, as noted in another post, there hasn't been much in the way of progress reports from you. It seems he's clarified his reasons while I've been putting together this very long post. All you had to do was respond that, yes, that is the case at the moment, but you have done x and y to get your product closer to certification.

Im tired of the never ending diff drop crap too... the stiddy saga.. dobinsonins thailand sticker job... the whole thing is a joke so trying to get a quality product out there... Its damn hard...

No doubt you understand that there is, after the events you referenced, a degree of reluctance to believe that you can do what he couldn't. I suspect that you're finding it somewhat more difficult than expected, though. You've been given the chance by the members and the admin here to prove that you can do it. Do so.

The product is out there..
its going into cars... If it does not meet your fancy or safety concerns dont buy it...

This concerns me. As does the reference by 94MANI to having one installed. You say in the following sentence that "if it was not safe or legal i would not be putting my name to it". I hope that this does not imply that sales may happen if the product is not engineered, just that if that is the case they won't have your name on them.

Charger, you've been given a fair go here, and that will continue to happen as long as your attitude to the forum and members is mature. Threatening to leave isn't and doesn't do anything for your credibility. Note the comments from Bill McQuade, a member who made his living doing modifications and still does them on a more limited basis, that " an approved, legal modification would be of great interest" and "There are people here that are willing to support a legal, quality product". This is, by and large, the consensus of most members here. You really couldn't ask for a more open attitude.

Do you believe my modifications are legal?

No, they're not. But you stated that you would have them all fully engineered, at which point they will be.

Its on the owner of car

Quite true. But, as I think I've pointed out before, modifications which might have safety implications can't be promoted or even officially condoned by this forum. Hence our attitude to extended shackles and the like. It's not favouritism, it's being responsible.

I think we should be finding out how much an engineer would charge to engineer the diff drop. By doing what ive done ive broken a few adrs but one report and they all get waived so who ever is interested in a diff drop get your car engineered and get the lift and tyres done at the same time to make your car completely legal problem solved

I don't think it's quite that simple. Getting one vehicle engineered for a particular modification does not make that mod legal on another vehicle. This is exactly what Charger is trying to do - get a type approval on a product so that it can be fitted to others. The cost of an engineer is irrelevant.

Wow just wow. Another thread gone to shit.

No, not yet and why this post is right here on the forum. To prove that we are giving these blokes who are trying new things a fair go.

Now, back to discussion on the product, not the person.

[triton_guru]

What i was referring to is its up to the owner to ensure his vehicle is safe to be on the road. Im not saying that once one person has done it that it would be a legal mod or we might have a few more sased tritons running around.

Up until recently it was illegal to lift or put bigger tyres on a car that has esc (mn triton) but when people spoke about their lifted mns they were not frowned upon and nor was brendan from ultimate for advertising the product despite the fact that it was technically illegal and affects the esc and the safety of everyone on the road.

Charger i think you should carry on doing what your doing. Ive seen the kit and its solid especially compared to the standard crap so congratulations with what you have created and well done for taking the time to do it for a car that every other company wouldnt.

Guru

[tezza08]

So what would be the implications on cv's with a diff drop?