Suspension Droop

Suspension Droop

Postby braydenc on Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:21 am

Hi Everyone,

Now I have been looking into IFS suspension for some time and seen some stuff out there to improve our stock suspension most of it I leave with a whim as for what I do the standard stuff does fine (talking about arms etc)

But one thing that I notice with all IFS cars is they have no travel downwards, now is there a way to improve this I know most of it is big $$$ which isn't a issue im looking to do something unique with my Triton with out going full fledged SAS.

I dont know if ultimate can chime in here and let me know if its even possible to do with a Triton?

Thanks everyone.
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Re: Suspension Droop

Postby Jacobie on Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:10 pm

braydenc wrote:Hi Everyone,

Now I have been looking into IFS suspension for some time and seen some stuff out there to improve our stock suspension most of it I leave with a whim as for what I do the standard stuff does fine (talking about arms etc)

But one thing that I notice with all IFS cars is they have no travel downwards, now is there a way to improve this I know most of it is big $$$ which isn't a issue im looking to do something unique with my Triton with out going full fledged SAS.

I dont know if ultimate can chime in here and let me know if its even possible to do with a Triton?

Thanks everyone.



Could get lower profile bump stops, not recommended, but if that's what you're going for it could be a cheaper option.
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Re: Suspension Droop

Postby RHKTriton on Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:46 pm

The problem with the IFS is lack of space for longer drive shafts and wishbones.

So the travel is easiest provided at the back end or a live axle up front.
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Re: Suspension Droop

Postby NowForThe5th on Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:35 pm

Largely true, RHK but the cause of the problem is that the front diff needs to be offset in order for the front driveshaft to come down the side of the engine. So, in order to have equal lengths on each side the diff unit includes a shaft to take drive over to the same spot on the other side as the exit from the diff on the side to which it is offset.

If you could mount the diff in the centre you would be able to install much longer control arms and achieve much more suspension movement. This is graphically displayed in the following picture of the rear suspension on a Pajero.

Pic 065.jpg


Now, a picture from the side, which shows the difference front to rear.

Pic 042.jpg


It is possible to centre the front diff, but expensive and the manufacturers therefore avoid it.

Unless you go to custom front control arms (think Chapman Racing) then you're pretty much stuck with the movement that the factory design allows. Selection of spring and shock absorber rates becomes quite important since you don't want whatever droop you do have being limited.
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Re: Suspension Droop

Postby braydenc on Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:11 am

Thanks 5th hmm interesting im just thinking out side the box as most people say SAS but the ride quality is not worth the flex in my opinion may as well get a locker ill look into chapman racing, maybe talk to a fabricator on what can be done it would all need to pass engineering of coarse.
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Re: Suspension Droop

Postby NowForThe5th on Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:31 am

I don't think you want control arms like Chapman Racing make for their cars. Hardly roadgoing.

TBH most of what is said is hype from the wannabees that think that they're the most hard core four wheelers on the planet. The reality is that most IFS 4WDs are more than capable of handling almost any conditions, given some sensible driving.

Droop? I can honestly only think of a single time when I've been hung up on the front end for lack of ground clearance. That was in the Pajero, not the Tritons and was intentional. Steep, deeply rutted track downhill in wet, muddy conditions. I put the front wheels in the ruts so it would steer like a slot car. Rears cleared ok and gave me (some) traction and braking.

Other than that, where these things come unstuck is when you lift a front wheel off the ground. Open diff means loss of power, but that can be fixed better with a front locker. SAS really isn't necessary unless you regularly do serious hard core.
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Re: Suspension Droop

Postby coughy on Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:51 pm

100% agree with 5th
just need to drive the truck to the track conditions
i have a challenger and i go i would say 90% if not higher where the big boys run there sas units i just drive to my trucks strengths and i have amazed alot of people how capable the ifs is and a CHALLENGER
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Re: Suspension Droop

Postby braydenc on Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:08 am

Hey boys,

Just to clarify here im not doubting the Triton's off road capability's I know first hand 100 series boys have been in :shock: when I drive the same track as them and they are dual locked with 33s they are a great off road truck.

Im more looking at the options of getting extended arms in the front or if its even possible to do I could lock both diffs and be pretty much unstoppable but is it possible to do what im asking with the suspension and keep it street engineered.
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Re: Suspension Droop

Postby NowForThe5th on Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:06 am

braydenc wrote:I could lock both diffs and be pretty much unstoppable


Best option

braydenc wrote:is it possible to do what im asking with the suspension and keep it street engineered.


The simple answer is "no", but that's not 100% accurate. Many things are possible but require engineering and approval which can be expensive, especially if the registration authority requires such things as stability tests. Replacement control arms are available from various suppliers, especially in Thailand, but I'm not aware of a single one which has been approved for use here. Remember that suspension is a matter of quite complex geometry - it's not as simple as just whacking on a set of longer LCAs - the UCAs, ball joints, steering, driveshaft and brake components may need to be changed as well.

Widen your track with wheels that have offset around +15 to +20 and go with tyres and suspension that will give you the maximum legal lift in your State. Add front diff lock for traction.

I've said this heaps of times before but a well driven stock vehicle will almost always outperform a poorly driven modified vehicle. Seen it time and time again.
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Re: Suspension Droop

Postby braydenc on Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:43 pm

NowForThe5th wrote:
braydenc wrote:I could lock both diffs and be pretty much unstoppable


Best option

braydenc wrote:is it possible to do what im asking with the suspension and keep it street engineered.


The simple answer is "no", but that's not 100% accurate. Many things are possible but require engineering and approval which can be expensive, especially if the registration authority requires such things as stability tests. Replacement control arms are available from various suppliers, especially in Thailand, but I'm not aware of a single one which has been approved for use here. Remember that suspension is a matter of quite complex geometry - it's not as simple as just whacking on a set of longer LCAs - the UCAs, ball joints, steering, driveshaft and brake components may need to be changed as well.

Widen your track with wheels that have offset around +15 to +20 and go with tyres and suspension that will give you the maximum legal lift in your State. Add front diff lock for traction.

I've said this heaps of times before but a well-driven stock vehicle will almost always outperform a poorly driven modified vehicle. Seen it time and time again.


Thanks, mate you are always a wealth of knowledge on here seems the best way would be to bite the bullet go SAS or Dual lock the car which is an option.

As I said earlier I have no doubt in the Tritons off-road capabilities I only recently upgraded the suspension and that was mainly due to the sagging of the stock stuff, not the clearance side.

Well I suppose I am going front and rear lockers then one last question the GLXR came factory with one If I can source a Diff centre can I bolt it straight up and run a compressor into it or is there more involved with the traction control side of things?
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Re: Suspension Droop

Postby NowForThe5th on Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:27 pm

Can it be done, putting a factory RDL in? Yes, fraz did it with LSD. But he's a mechanic and took him a while. The factory system uses low pressure air while, for the front, if using an ARB type locker, you need high pressure air. So, you'd end up like me, with 3 different compressors on board. Complex. Easiest is air or electric lockers each end. That way you keep TC in low range, which is a bonus.
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Re: Suspension Droop

Postby ag9111 on Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:44 pm

If you can pick up a rear locked diff, from drum to drum, with the same ratio than easy swap out.
I think an after market locker would be a better bet though. As 5th mentioned, multiple compressors
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Re: Suspension Droop

Postby braydenc on Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:25 pm

Yeah, make sense the more simple the better alright I suppose it's time to call ARB then!
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Re: Suspension Droop

Postby L200Shogun on Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:42 pm

This lets you have 3" suspension lift. I have read of it being "engineered" in NSW

https://www.kpd4x4.com/karrman-diff-dro ... -triton-ch
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Re: Suspension Droop

Postby stefanos on Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:45 pm

L200Shogun wrote:This lets you have 3" suspension lift. I have read of it being "engineered" in NSW

https://www.kpd4x4.com/karrman-diff-dro ... -triton-ch


I think that it doesn't work well!!!
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Re: Suspension Droop

Postby NowForThe5th on Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:57 pm

Why, Stefanos?
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Re: Suspension Droop

Postby stefanos on Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:37 pm

You"ll see in a couple of days Chris!!(I'm in the middle of front end mod because of diff drop......a mild travel control arms).
With few words......diff drop with out new or modified lca and uca is useless.....and the damage is waiting!!!

Btw....if you read the pdf of the above lift,maybe you'll understand
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Re: Suspension Droop

Postby NowForThe5th on Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:36 pm

So you're saying new UCAs are not enough and revised LCAs are needed? Why they limit LCA with extended bump stops?

Eagerly awaiting your post in a few days.
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Re: Suspension Droop

Postby stefanos on Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:25 pm

Longer both control arms is needed !!the upper more than the lower.
If you noticed on pdf, they give spacers for the upper bumpstop.
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Re: Suspension Droop

Postby charger265 on Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:07 pm

stefanos wrote:
L200Shogun wrote:This lets you have 3" suspension lift. I have read of it being "engineered" in NSW

https://www.kpd4x4.com/karrman-diff-dro ... -triton-ch


I think that it doesn't work well!!!


Mind blown... Never used or tested but can say it doesnt work... That sounds logical...
Its a shame after so many years people still hold grudges...
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Re: Suspension Droop

Postby srb on Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:07 am

Stefano never said it "doesn't work" he says he thinks it wouldn't work "well".

Stefano is a fairly switched on dude so I'd love it if he could explain in detail why he thinks this type of kit wouldn't work that well?

And Charger, you haven't changed a bit.

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Re: Suspension Droop

Postby 4wd26 on Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:06 pm

charger265 wrote:
stefanos wrote:
L200Shogun wrote:This lets you have 3" suspension lift. I have read of it being "engineered" in NSW

https://www.kpd4x4.com/karrman-diff-dro ... -triton-ch


I think that it doesn't work well!!!


Mind blown... Never used or tested but can say it doesnt work... That sounds logical...
Its a shame after so many years people still hold grudges...

https://www.newtriton.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=22103&p=555292#p555292

mind blown.....
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Re: Suspension Droop

Postby srb on Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:53 pm

Ahh I now see why.. haha Thanks, I hadn't seen that thread.

Very nice work, Stefano.

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Re: Suspension Droop

Postby charger265 on Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:26 pm

srb wrote:Stefano never said it "doesn't work" he says he thinks it wouldn't work "well".

Stefano is a fairly switched on dude so I'd love it if he could explain in detail why he thinks this type of kit wouldn't work that well?

And Charger, you haven't changed a bit.

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I guess being allergic to bull shit brings the best out in me... I could also say the same for this forum locking posts and claiming i can reply in a new thread.. But that would be a breach of forum rules.. Yup.. nothing has changed...

BTW.. that was my point.. thinking it doesn't work just shows that he doesn't know what he is talking about (karrman kit)... But hey.. i guess that's just fact... and apparently we don't work off facts here.. just thoughts.. hmmmm whats that... never had a karrman kit to test you say??? Just theory???
And it would be interesting to see how the admin approve of a mod that requires cutting and welding of both the upper and lower control arm.. Im sure that will pass Australian standards... :lol:
Yup.. nothing has changed.. good work guys.. hats off to you all...

The double standards of supporting a member that is fabricating something that would never pass Australian standards that achieves the exact same thing is phrased as a switched on person who knows what he is doing... Yet you have someone else who has produced an approved and engineered kit for the Australian market yet all attempts were made to derail the products... Just love the double standards...

Edit: I also see the quite convenient deleting of posts where incriminating information is posted about admin abuse..
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Re: Suspension Droop

Postby NowForThe5th on Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:43 am

Nick, let's try to keep this thread somewhat on topic, which is "suspension droop", not your perceived problems which I'll address in the other (Karmann Diff Drop) thread.

Stefanos, (that's the Greek one, not the Italian Stefano), gave his opinion and, in the thread that 4wd26 linked, provided more explanation. If you have a specific issue with Stefanos' opinion then, sure, take that up with him, either here or by PM.
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