are strut spacers legal?

are strut spacers legal?

Postby brunopezz on Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:44 pm

are strut spacers legal?
Im talking about the snake racing type that give a 35-40 mm lift.
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Re: are strut spacers legal?

Postby daryn on Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:58 pm

Can Snake Racing tell you if they are legal in Qld ? I know there extended shackles are not in NSW.
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Re: are strut spacers legal?

Postby ultimate on Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:44 pm

At the moment strut spacers are not illegal but extended shackles are definitely illegal in both NSW and QLD. If you are planning on doing a bit of off road work, coil spacers are not recommended as they limit up travel (bump) and force the spring downwards and over extended the droop. We have had many customers come in with damaged CVs and severe driveline angles because of these coil spacers. They are a cheap way to get a lift but not worth it in my opinion.
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Re: are strut spacers legal?

Postby brunopezz on Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:56 pm

Hi Ultimate.
Im not understanding how spacers will limit up travel or over extend the droop.
My understanding is that the spring and the struts travel isn't altered.
The spring won't compress past its maximum compression and the droop will be what it was before the spacer was fitted because it would stop when it reaches the rubber stop.

Please correct me if i'm wrong as im still trying to figure all this out.

Thanks in advance.
Bruno.
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Re: are strut spacers legal?

Postby ultimate on Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:52 pm

Hi Bruno,

The coil spacers do actually affect the properties of the strut and coils. It's a pretty complicated aspect to explain so I’ve included these diagrams to try and make it a bit easier to understand. The use of Coil Spacer Kits (shown in yellow) limits the amount of up-travel achieved in a vehicle with IFS. For example if the vehicle is fitted with 2” coil spacers between the top coil seat and the body mount the shock assembly is now compressed an extra 2”, as a result the shock will now bottom out sooner resulting in a significant 2” decrease in up-travel. This compression of the coil assembly is also theoretically increasing the coil rate, which means the shock absorber is working outside of it’s specifications and the ride is harder than if an aftermarket shock and coil is used.

Click to view larger picture
maximum uptravel

A lot of IFS vehicles like the Hilux do not have a bottom bump stop to limit the droop. That’s why coil spacers present a problem with overextending the droop as it leaves CV’s, ball joints and steering linkages vulnerable to fouling. You are correct in that the bump stop on the Triton will restrict this droop and it isn’t as much of a concern on the Triton. However as a result of this restriction, you do gain the height from the spacer, but lose a considerable amount of wheel travel now in both directions.

Click to view larger picture
Maximum droop
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Re: are strut spacers legal?

Postby brunopezz on Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:38 pm

Hi Ultimate.
Hey thanks for going to so much trouble to explain this to me, much appreciated.
I understand what your saying.

But I would have thought that down travel will be the same in the triton because the wheel will still travel until it reaches the bump stop. Right? The bump stop is on the fixed part of the car, right?
Or am i still getting this wrong. will have a good look and think about it tonight.

I can see that up travel will be restricted by the size of the spacer however.

Thanks again for the explanation Ultimate.
Bruno.
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Re: are strut spacers legal?

Postby RHKTriton on Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:41 pm

I'd reckon it would be better to leave the suspension geometry alone and fit larger diameter tyres and actually increase the space between the body and chassis.

As amazing as CVs are in getting power to the hub through all insane angles, they are sensitive. From what I've read, they need a bit of angle to lubricate properly and too much under constant heavy load will cook em. The boots will also wear prematurely if the angle is too great.
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Re: are strut spacers legal?

Postby RichT on Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:46 pm

QUOTE - "The use of Coil Spacer Kits (shown in yellow) limits the amount of up-travel achieved in a vehicle with IFS. For example if the vehicle is fitted with 2” coil spacers between the top coil seat and the body mount the shock assembly is now compressed an extra 2”, as a result the shock will now bottom out sooner resulting in a significant 2” decrease in up-travel. This compression of the coil assembly is also theoretically increasing the coil rate, which means the shock absorber is working outside of it’s specifications and the ride is harder than if an aftermarket shock and coil is used."

As I worked it out:

The strut spacer goes between the top strut mount and the chassis, therefore makes no change to the space the coil has to fit into, so doesn't compress the coil.

It does alter the effective length of the whole strut though, and alter the relative positions of the bump stops.

Compared to the standard set up - The upper bump stop (droop stop) is closer to the chassis, so droop is reduced. The lower bump stop (compression stop) is farther away from the chassis, therefore upward travel available is increased.

I've just fitted a 25mm strut spacer to my 2009 L200 Trojan, 285/75/16 AT2s on 0 offset 8x16s now fit with slight trimming to the mud flaps, the tyres are close (but don't touch) with full suspension compression & full lock.

The truck rides fine, just some extra tyre rumble. All in all a cheap way to get 285s under the truck without major trimming or drive train issues.

:D
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Re: are strut spacers legal?

Postby boostedbmw on Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:28 pm

I did it with a Snake spacer and it stuffed my shock. I went over a hump on the beach and got a bit of air which in turn forced the spring pressure down on to its mount on the shock and sheared it clean off. Had to get towed home. DON"T DO IT. Save up just a bit more and get a set of lifted coils. Although i do still use the shackle extensions from snake. I bogged up the logo, painted them black and sprayed some rust proofing on the so the cops/rta find it harder to spot the mod
It's easier to get forgivness than permission.
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Re: are strut spacers legal?

Postby SinWolf on Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:08 pm

RichT wrote:As I worked it out:

The strut spacer goes between the top strut mount and the chassis, therefore makes no change to the space the coil has to fit into, so doesn't compress the coil.

It does alter the effective length of the whole strut though, and alter the relative positions of the bump stops.

Compared to the standard set up - The upper bump stop (droop stop) is closer to the chassis, so droop is reduced. The lower bump stop (compression stop) is farther away from the chassis, therefore upward travel available is increased.

I've just fitted a 25mm strut spacer to my 2009 L200 Trojan, 285/75/16 AT2s on 0 offset 8x16s now fit with slight trimming to the mud flaps, the tyres are close (but don't touch) with full suspension compression & full lock.

The truck rides fine, just some extra tyre rumble. All in all a cheap way to get 285s under the truck without major trimming or drive train issues.

:D



Ultimate... Could you please comment on this ??

I also fitted spacers beteen the strut and the body, and did NOT strip the strut to fit spacers inside the strut assembly !

Which means that the coil's compression stayed the sam....
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Re: are strut spacers legal?

Postby ultimate on Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:40 am

The spacers do raise the vehicle but are not recommended. The strut spacers which go on top of the assembly still produce too much downwards pressure and limit compression. The coil compression is not changed but the strut will bottom out before it reaches the bump stop meaning you will not have the same up travel as normal. Because the strut spacer is pushing down on the strut assembly, it is trying to force too much down travel. On most vehicles this will cause drive line and CV failure as the droop is pushed beyond the vehicle's limits.

Because the L200 Triton has a bump stop restricting droop, the CVs are somewhat protected. This has other affects though with the spacers as the bump stop clearance is significantly reduced and in most case the vehicle is continually riding on the top bump stop. This will cause bump steer and is dangerous and uncomfortable for the driver.

For a vehicle's suspension to work properly, you need adequate travel in both directions. This allows the suspension to react to the changing road surface for steering, absorbing bumps and keeping the tyres in contact with the ground. Without adequate down travel, the suspension cannot work properly and the ride quality and handling characteristics of the vehicle are compromised.

Pictures tell a thousand words so here are a few photos from the Hilux forum of damage caused to struts and ball joints as a result of strut spacers. Some of the spacers are a bit extreme but the principles and risks are still the same. In my opinion, stick to longer struts and coils customised to suit your vehicle and application. It may be a bit more expensive in the beginning but is far better for the reliability and safety of the vehicle.

Click to view larger picture
Click to view larger picture
Click to view larger picture
Click to view larger picture
Click to view larger picture
Click to view larger picture

These images were taken off a Hilux at static height on flat ground. As you can see, the coil spacer is raising the vehicle too high and pushing the top control arm down. This control arm is continually contacting the coil when in motion which is incredibly dangerous and will eventually cause major damage.

Click to view larger picture
Click to view larger picture
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Re: are strut spacers legal?

Postby RHKTriton on Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:38 pm

Scary what you see on the road.

esp "kids" with extreme lifted old landcruisers and patrols - all looks pretty kool until they have to panic brake or swerve around something!

Other worry is all the scrap metal on the front is now at head height for other drivers!
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coil spacers

Postby 1tuff_triton on Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:50 pm

Heya all,
I currently have a heavy duty Tough dog 40mm lift on my ML, due to having a Tuff 5 post bar and winch at the front end i havent really had much gain out of my lift kit. I have the option of using 25mm snake racing spacers to gain an extra 30-40mm ride height. Hoping that someone else has done this or has been given any advice on this. Not sure whether this would work well or not. It's definately coast effective.

Any experiences or knowledge would be great

cheers
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Re: coil spacers

Postby daryn on Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:57 pm

Hi Gav,

welcome to the site mate, I am going to merge this thread with another mate, it is this one here:

http://www.newtriton.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=4577&hilit=coil+spacers

It also discusses whether coil spacers are legal, but also includes some great information from one of our forum sponsors, Ultimate Suspension.

By all means post up questions, but you will probably find that having a go at the search feature above and tutorial in my link will be your best friend. I can say by now that there is not much that has not been discussed.
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Re: are strut spacers legal?

Postby fez on Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:15 am

thats some very good info there. time to save some more money and do it proply

ian
QLD & NT Technical manager for Suzuki Marine
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Re: are strut spacers legal?

Postby shorto64 on Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:42 am

Ha Gav
Reading your post did you have the bar and winch on your ML before you put the 40mm lift under? If so did they workout the weight of bar and winch and any accessories to get the right strut setup for your ML
Regards
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Re: are strut spacers legal?

Postby Sky Miner on Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:08 am

Extended shackles are allso illegal in the N.T
you can buy the shackles off the shelf' :roll: but it's on your head if you put them on your vehicle.
It's not illegal to buy it' only to use it on the road.
The laws up here are a little.....slack to say the least :roll:
Ever noticed if somebody is driving slower than you is an idiot,
and anyone going faster than you is also an idiot?
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Re: are strut spacers legal?

Postby joelzo on Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:56 am

I put 25mm snake racing strut spacers in my trition from new. It lifted over 50mm but the droop stop was touching. This is with no front bullbar, winch etc. just factory nudge bar.

The ride was bumpy and stiff from the front as you could feel every bump on the up travel as it hit the stop. Not worth it, even for on road driving.

Maybe with a heavy bar and winch up front, or with older sagged springs they would work better?

Anyway ive since fitted Ultimate comfort lifted springs and shocks up front, lost about 10mm height from the strut spacers, but well worth it. Rides AND brakes better too
hmmm 255 character limit hey...
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Re: are strut spacers legal?

Postby fridgie on Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:31 pm

SinWolf wrote:
RichT wrote:As I worked it out:

The strut spacer goes between the top strut mount and the chassis, therefore makes no change to the space the coil has to fit into, so doesn't compress the coil.

It does alter the effective length of the whole strut though, and alter the relative positions of the bump stops.

Compared to the standard set up - The upper bump stop (droop stop) is closer to the chassis, so droop is reduced. The lower bump stop (compression stop) is farther away from the chassis, therefore upward travel available is increased.

I've just fitted a 25mm strut spacer to my 2009 L200 Trojan, 285/75/16 AT2s on 0 offset 8x16s now fit with slight trimming to the mud flaps, the tyres are close (but don't touch) with full suspension compression & full lock.

The truck rides fine, just some extra tyre rumble. All in all a cheap way to get 285s under the truck without major trimming or drive train issues.

:D



Ultimate... Could you please comment on this ??

I also fitted spacers beteen the strut and the body, and did NOT strip the strut to fit spacers inside the strut assembly !

Which means that the coil's compression stayed the sam....


ultimate wrote:The spacers do raise the vehicle but are not recommended. The strut spacers which go on top of the assembly still produce too much downwards pressure and limit compression. The coil compression is not changed but the strut will bottom out before it reaches the bump stop meaning you will not have the same up travel as normal. Because the strut spacer is pushing down on the strut assembly, it is trying to force too much down travel. On most vehicles this will cause drive line and CV failure as the droop is pushed beyond the vehicle's limits.

Because the L200 Triton has a bump stop restricting droop, the CVs are somewhat protected. This has other affects though with the spacers as the bump stop clearance is significantly reduced and in most case the vehicle is continually riding on the top bump stop. This will cause bump steer and is dangerous and uncomfortable for the driver.

For a vehicle's suspension to work properly, you need adequate travel in both directions. This allows the suspension to react to the changing road surface for steering, absorbing bumps and keeping the tyres in contact with the ground. Without adequate down travel, the suspension cannot work properly and the ride quality and handling characteristics of the vehicle are compromised.

Pictures tell a thousand words so here are a few photos from the Hilux forum of damage caused to struts and ball joints as a result of strut spacers. Some of the spacers are a bit extreme but the principles and risks are still the same. In my opinion, stick to longer struts and coils customised to suit your vehicle and application. It may be a bit more expensive in the beginning but is far better for the reliability and safety of the vehicle.

Click to view larger picture
Click to view larger picture
Click to view larger picture
Click to view larger picture
Click to view larger picture
Click to view larger picture

These images were taken off a Hilux at static height on flat ground. As you can see, the coil spacer is raising the vehicle too high and pushing the top control arm down. This control arm is continually contacting the coil when in motion which is incredibly dangerous and will eventually cause major damage.

Click to view larger picture
Click to view larger picture


boostedbmw wrote:I did it with a Snake spacer and it stuffed my shock. I went over a hump on the beach and got a bit of air which in turn forced the spring pressure down on to its mount on the shock and sheared it clean off. Had to get towed home. DON"T DO IT. Save up just a bit more and get a set of lifted coils. Although i do still use the shackle extensions from snake. I bogged up the logo, painted them black and sprayed some rust proofing on the so the cops/rta find it harder to spot the mod


RichT wrote:QUOTE - "The use of Coil Spacer Kits (shown in yellow) limits the amount of up-travel achieved in a vehicle with IFS. For example if the vehicle is fitted with 2” coil spacers between the top coil seat and the body mount the shock assembly is now compressed an extra 2”, as a result the shock will now bottom out sooner resulting in a significant 2” decrease in up-travel. This compression of the coil assembly is also theoretically increasing the coil rate, which means the shock absorber is working outside of it’s specifications and the ride is harder than if an aftermarket shock and coil is used."

As I worked it out:

The strut spacer goes between the top strut mount and the chassis, therefore makes no change to the space the coil has to fit into, so doesn't compress the coil.

It does alter the effective length of the whole strut though, and alter the relative positions of the bump stops.

Compared to the standard set up - The upper bump stop (droop stop) is closer to the chassis, so droop is reduced. The lower bump stop (compression stop) is farther away from the chassis, therefore upward travel available is increased.

I've just fitted a 25mm strut spacer to my 2009 L200 Trojan, 285/75/16 AT2s on 0 offset 8x16s now fit with slight trimming to the mud flaps, the tyres are close (but don't touch) with full suspension compression & full lock.

The truck rides fine, just some extra tyre rumble. All in all a cheap way to get 285s under the truck without major trimming or drive train issues.

:D
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Strut Spacers

Postby Jimy89 on Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:07 am

So.. I know people are always asking whether these are a good option and what are the consequences and what not. So i though id add my 2c worth. I reckon theyre a great budget lift idea, mainly if your car and suspension is fairly new.
BUT..
Take it from my personal experience, I bought the biggest spacer kit, the 35mm or 3" lift. Just don't....
Ive busted one CV off road and now I've torn the boots on both sides just from freeway, around town driving. Honestly they're more hassle than what they're worth. Just stick with the 25mm spacer or 2" kit. If you want bigger a body lift is the next easiest thing.
Just thought id shed some light from my own experience running them with 2" body lift. :D
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Re: are strut spacers legal?

Postby Sickd on Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:49 pm

Ok if I want to raise my truck 2" and I do it by new struts and springs, won't I still have the same problem with the droop?
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Re: are strut spacers legal?

Postby NowForThe5th on Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:52 pm

Yes, but not to the same degree and they won't put damaging stresses on the components.
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Re: are strut spacers legal?

Postby Sickd on Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:31 pm

What's the maximum suspension lift you can do with lout stuffing up the cv geometry and or cv angle?

35mm sounds familiar as a bloke at work done proper suspension lift on his 550 nav and was maximum aloud 40mm or it would start to wreck cv's
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Re: are strut spacers legal?

Postby NowForThe5th on Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:08 pm

The problem is 35mm over what? I've read of members here who've been down to 520mm front while the standard for MLs was around 550mm and for later MNs up around 580mm. Unless you take before and after readings and then express your lift as the difference of 2", it all means diddly squat.

A comfortable maximum for a Triton is around 595mm, some have more and have no issue, others have a bit less. There's a lot more in the Ride Heights thread.
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Re: are strut spacers legal?

Postby Sickd on Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:20 am

NowForThe5th wrote:The problem is 35mm over what? I've read of members here who've been down to 520mm front while the standard for MLs was around 550mm and for later MNs up around 580mm. Unless you take before and after readings and then express your lift as the difference of 2", it all means diddly squat.

A comfortable maximum for a Triton is around 595mm, some have more and have no issue, others have a bit less. There's a lot more in the Ride Heights thread.



Hey nowforthe5th could you help me understand where I take the measurement from front and rear
To know that I'm in theheight range you talk of (595mm) that would be great as I can't find it out anywhere
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