Random Suspension Questions

[daryn]

Hey Al, I think you are on to something, I am pretty sure that pic is showing my shagged Lovells coils which have now been upgraded to the new black coil. If I am right the pic above on the side with the dual battery ended up dropping to about 535mm, it all clicked for me when I got hung up for the first time ever out at Bylong.

I got home miffed still by it and checked my heights, 590 to 535 go figure, makes a different when 4 wheeling. Anyway now back at 590mm drivers side and 580mm passengers side. I have my 245 skinnys on at the moment which look stupid but I don't care, that would be an interesting pic.

[ultimate]

what are the measurements for the leaf spring (factory and aftermarket/ ultimate)
front bush to locating pin
rear bush to locating pin

and how does this compare to the hilux (or other dual cabs) over suspension over axle
and how does it compare to the MK triton (underslung)
and finally the landcruiser

just for interest sake in seeing how all the different models work

some talk about triton rear flex more than a hilux (from a hilux owner)

Hopefully you can understand I can't give out the measurements of UItimate's springs due to intellectual property. Here are a couple of original spring measurements to give you an idea of how different vehicles are set up. There are a number of factors which determine the amount of wheel travel. These include spring rate, length, camber, shock length, brake/abs lines, mounting points, linkages, tailshaft, wheel base, shackle design and vehicle weight. Just going longer in the spring will not always give more travel.

These are only rough measurements but pretty close to the true lengths. All of these leaf springs are mounted on top of the axle.

Fixed end to Pin/Pin to shackle end
Triton- 520/690
Hilux- 610/690
Jeep XJ Cherokee- 580/720
Navara D40- 665/730

The MK Triton is a bit shorter than the ML/MN (about 20mm from memory).

From the above measurements, you can see how the Triton spring is shorter than the others but still gets good wheel travel. Even compared to the jeep, I believe a fairly standard Triton (up to2" lift) gets more rear wheel travel than an XJ. Obviously the XJ can be modifed more and achieve incredible travel, but this is the limit with springs and shocks alone. Front travel is a different story. This one still had plenty to go

Have been assured that all those things will be done and all will be perfectly legal.

I would get that in writing, signed and on a company letterhead. All body lifts have to be engineered regardless of the vehicle type. If you already have a suspension kit fitted, it's more important as you will be raising the vehicle more than 50mm in trim height. As Al coholic said, the biggest drama is trying to get an engineer to approve a body lift on a vehicle fitted with airbags. There is no evidence to support the fact that body lifts do not affect air bag deployment. To prove this, you need to do crash testing which is incredibly expensive and not practical. When investigating the body lifts for RODW from newhilux.net, a local engineer told me:

It's not a case of proving that the body lift won't affect air bag deployment. It's the fact that if an airbag didn’t deploy in an accident, you have to be able to prove that the body lift wasn’t the cause. Unless you have a lot of money and a means to test it, it's impossible.

If you do go ahead with it, I strongly recommend you protect yourself by getting enough documentation showing that you have been advised it is a legal modification fit for road use. Here's an extract from the NSW RTA which goes into a bit more detail:

Page 9- WHAT ABOUT VEHICLES WHOSE TRIM HEIGHT IS RAISED BY SPACER BLCOKS?

Vehicles whose ride height is raised by body or suspension lifts (ie. By using lift or spacer blocks) represent a particular risk as such modifications simply lift the centre of gravity of the vehicles without providing any additional means to control the increased dynamic forces this produces; they have a propensity to roll-over. Because of this, vehicles subjected to these modifications must be assessed and certified by an RTA recognised engineering signatory regardless of the increase in trim height.

[4wd26]

Brendan- cheers for that info.

[4wd26]

Body lifts are quite posible in QLD, and I know Forby's have done quite a few and got them approved.

note that everything else must be legal as its not just the body lift that they will assess.

Don't go in with over sized tyres or extended shackles etc....

[ultimate]

Yeah I believe there is a loop hole when it comes to NA Category vehicles. Being "Commercial vehicles" they don't have to comply with the same airbag standards as a wagon 4x4. A lot of people I have spoken to (Both independent engineer's and representatives from the RTA) say this is a very risky line to take. If the vehicle is engineered, there shouldn't be a drama. I just thought $1100 sounded a bit too cheap to include the kit, fitting and engineering.

Another point to note; warranty, airbag compliance and towing certifications may be voided if the bar work is modified to suit a body lift.

To me, it's a lot of effort just to raise the cab.

[deermaster]

Yes 4wd26, fourbys have done quite a few body lifts. I have had two vehicles done with suspension lifts there and quite a bit of other work.
Ultimate
They have done a few body lifts for Tritons as well as quite a few other vehicles.
They are looking after me with price as I still have plenty more things I want to get them to do yet. Sorta like fitting my new snorkel I just ordered from four wheel drive supplies on here and probably a chip to get better performance and hopefully better fuel economy. Then Chris off here who has helped me spend a heap of dollars will probably find something else for me to buy for my Triton.

[johnmurray11]

Hi
I'm dead keen to get a ultimate suspension setup on my mn...I'm in w.a not to far from Perth...is there anywhere here that you guys can recommend ??? Cheers John

[smouch1975]

I'm going into Robson Bros, welshpool for fitment next Thursday.
They appear very professional, I can let you know?

http://www.robsonbros4wd.com.au/

[chrisb]

Here is my random suspesion question
I had my wheels aligned, then I found out



The distance between the left bump stops mount plates was 15mm longer then the right
I checked and the left torsion bar was wound up a lot more then the right one
I have since evened them out and for starters the car has a much smoother ride

Should I get another wheel alignment?

[har05l]

97 MK Triton, 2.8D ICed turbo, 30" raised a bit, bull bar

I can't help with your Q chrisb but a 30" lift

[fraz91]

I imagine that's for 30" tyres har05l

Chris, for your purpose I'd recommend checking the heights from the hub-centre to the underside of the wheel guard directly above it. Ideally, the drivers side of the vehicle should sit 5-10mm higher than the passenger side to account for driver-weight. If you're adjusting the torsion bars to change the height, then it is highly recommended that a wheel alignment be carried out once the desired heights are achieved. This ensures all steering components are within factory specifications, giving the best driving characteristics for your vehicle.

[chrisb]

yeah 30" tyres, raised a bit, should change my signature
I assume its raised a bit as I have no idea what is standard.
I beleive it has stock torsion bars so I've adjusted the height so the bump stop differences top/bottom are even ish.
I measured from the top of the rim to the bottom of the wheel arch, the car was setup the other way round, the left side was about 365mm and the right was 340mm, now its all even at about 340mm. I'll wind the right side up a tiny bit so the right side is slightly higher.

[oztrucker84]

has anyone here got 2" body lift? trying to get 2" suspension and 2" body, but want to make sure I get do it legal ( for a change ) lol. also anyone recommend suspension places in Melbourne west? werribee....... thnks

[Mccann]

Someone wants to buy my stock suspension once I get the lift kit from Ultimate installed.

Can anyone give me a price of what I should sell it for?
Has any one else sold theirs? for how much?
ML Triton has only done 25,000 km and everything is in good condition.

Also does anyone here want to buy it?

or should I just give it away?

Thanks
Michael.

[CALMAN09GLXR]

Tex has hit the nail on the head. If u can find someone willing to take the standard junk (even for a door stop) then let them have it. I have an orange bin that is being filled with genuine stuff.
I had purchased the crappy repco brand lift for my triton and can say the only nice thing are the rear leafs!! Recently purchased pre assembled struts from ultimate. My mate with a hilux -_- ordered for himself from Brendan so I chucked my order in on top to suit bar winch etc. Fitted myself got aligned and can honestly say [censored] me!! I had no idea that much magic could be worked, no longer have a biscuit tin on bed springs to drive. It handles excellent soaks up anything that is thrown at it. Big thumbs up to 'ultimate'!!

[biggibbo]

I don't think anyone would want to take it off your hands. Bin it.

[dan.batto]

I'm going to see how much I can get at the scrap metal...hopefully I can get a couple beers out of mine!

[neros103]

hay guys, is there anyone out there with a Dobinson 45 mm suspension upgrade, struts, coils springs etc, and if so what do you think

[Joe]

I have had that set up for about 2 and half years and about 50000k neros. It has been very good and I have been generally happy with it. Couple of things to note though, my front has sagged but I think manly due to fitting a bullbar, and the front shocks are just about done too.

Ultimate was not a forum sponsor when I got mine and after riding in a few with Ultimate's I would prefer to have that. It is a much nicer ride. Will be fitting Ultimate when money permits

[neros103]

thanks for the info joe, i am currently talking with ultimate as well as a few others, and am a firm beliver in going by recomendation, my only concern would be any faulty units or warranty issues as perth is a long way from NSW

[Thommo3337]

NerIs I am with you if ultimate had a shop close to my house i think I would give them a try but at this stage think I am going to go with efs which is 3 km down the road anything goes wrong in 100000 km or 3 years he will take it back and replace!!

[Snooozy]

I went with Pedders for the same warranty reasons. Plenty of stores Aust wide to go to if something went wrong.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing & if I was doing it again I would go with Ultimate. Their warranty is second to none & they have a magnificent reputation around here. From what I have seen/heard if there is a problem they go out of their way to make you a happy customer.

Their struts can also be reco'd & re-valved if you change your setup & the pre-assembled struts make it easy for the home mechanic.

I know where I'm going next time

[91Geoff]

Planning on an Ultimate suspension setup in the immediate future (just to be different) and want to eliminate the chance of any shudder issues by doing the Brett05 centre bearing mod straight away. I can get this done by a reputable Perth fabricator before I can do the lift, so then Im good from the get go - is this advisable? I dont see any harm coming about from dropping the centre bearing a couple of weeks prior to the new suspension going in but I could be wrong...

[al coholic]

Planning on an Ultimate suspension setup in the immediate future (just to be different) and want to eliminate the chance of any shudder issues by doing the Brett05 centre bearing mod straight away. I can get this done by a reputable Perth fabricator before I can do the lift, so then Im good from the get go - is this advisable? I dont see any harm coming about from dropping the centre bearing a couple of weeks prior to the new suspension going in but I could be wrong...

Wouldn't you wait to see if there is any shudder after the lift is installed?? Its not a foregone conclusion that you will get any shudder. Otherwise its a waste of time to be honest

Some have it but its barely noticeable and not worth doing a fix.....others like Brett had to do the centre bearing mod.

I say wait and see Ultimate don't have many that get the shudder now a days when they are installing the kits

[91Geoff]

Planning on an Ultimate suspension setup in the immediate future (just to be different) and want to eliminate the chance of any shudder issues by doing the Brett05 centre bearing mod straight away. I can get this done by a reputable Perth fabricator before I can do the lift, so then Im good from the get go - is this advisable? I dont see any harm coming about from dropping the centre bearing a couple of weeks prior to the new suspension going in but I could be wrong...

Wouldn't you wait to see if there is any shudder after the lift is installed?? Its not a foregone conclusion that you will get any shudder. Otherwise its a waste of time to be honest

Some have it but its barely noticeable and not worth doing a fix.....others like Brett had to do the centre bearing mod.

I say wait and see Ultimate don't have many that get the shudder now a days when they are installing the kits

All valid points. I'm just a stickler for perfection sometimes and the thought of a shudder is giving me pre=-emptive nervous twitches! Some castor wedges etc should drop it dramatically if its required.