Suspension lift....shudder

[NowForThe5th]

I could be wrong but don't the manual glxr mn tritons come with a one piece shaft. Also would a double Cardin joint help anything. I want to lift mine but I want to do it right without the shudder.
It sounds like its going to be a hard fix. I hope not though. All the info is great thanks.

Yes, you are wrong. Manuals have two piece, autos one piece.

There are some technical difficulties with a double cardan joint, mainly related to the angle at the other end of the drive shaft which is beyond the limit needed with a double cardan joint. So, possible but difficult and if you solve the problems you no longer need a double cardan joint.

Some members are reporting success with a single driveshaft conversion but I have some doubts about this at full droop with a lifted suspension. If it were that easy Misubishi would have done it long ago. The centre bearing mount mod seems the best and is probably a lot cheaper than new a driveshaft. As far as I can remember it's had a 100% success rate. Even without it it doesn't take much weight to drop the body to the point where there is no longer any shudder.

[biggibbo]

Mines a manual and I have a one piece tail shaft. MN GLXR. Sounds like there must be a whole heap of different combos from what NFTF has said.

[NowForThe5th]

My bad. Forgot about Super Select,

[cookoy]

hey all, did a custom lift here in the Philippines since teh only available lift kits are priced ridiculously(around 4 to 5x more than there). i have tried teh shaft spacer, the caster wedges and the re-fabrication of teh center bearing. teh shudder has been minimized when on flat surfaces, but on rather steep inclines it is crazy!! it's like being in a giant martini shaker! the entire body shakes lke it wants to break apart..... so i'm at ends right now trying to figure out what else can be done... The lift we did at was a 2.5" longer shackle and i added a #2 leaf on each side which came from a Ford F100. i'll try to post some pics of my lift tomorrow \, maybe you guys can give me some ideas.... i don't mind testing stuff on my tri, since it can help me and i'm sure countless others witht he shudder issue

[big_bob_thefirst]

Hi guys, recently installed the ultimate 2" and have some slight shuddering when taking off in 1st. It's not enough to annoy me (so very slight) but the manual gear box seems to be absorbing most of it.

Is there any risk of damage to the gear box due to the shuddering?

[viking shippy]

Hi guys, recently installed the ultimate 2" and have some slight shuddering when taking off in 1st. It's not enough to annoy me (so very slight) but the manual gear box seems to be absorbing most of it.

Is there any risk of damage to the gear box due to the shuddering?

No not that I have experienced after 2years and 50k
I don't even feel it anymore..I've a drive shaft spacer,flipped the centre bearing and shimmed the gearbox also and it's bearly noticeable...

[big_bob_thefirst]

I haven't done anything to minimise it and if it stays like this probably won't. I was just wondering as the gear box does seem to b taking most of the shutter out.

[Bigbirdalx]

Hi guys, recently installed the ultimate 2" and have some slight shuddering when taking off in 1st. It's not enough to annoy me (so very slight) but the manual gear box seems to be absorbing most of it.

Is there any risk of damage to the gear box due to the shuddering?

No not that I have experienced after 2years and 50k
I don't even feel it anymore..I've a drive shaft spacer,flipped the centre bearing and shimmed the gearbox also and it's bearly noticeable...

Seems most MNs are coming already flipped from factory myself and a few others have found this

[Calblitzen]

I only notice it when in 2wd high range with an empty ute and taking off up a steep incline.

[oldplodder]

MN GLX 2012 manual - with easy select.
Ultimate with 2" lift.
Shudder is back, it is only a slight shudder.
Disappeared while on the trip fully loaded, so it is definitely related to drive shaft angles combined with other factors.

Have a friend who designs truck modifications, and he took it for a drive, and said"what shudder?".
Evidently can be a lot worse in a truck when mods done.
He had a quick look and in his opinion, with a lift, the triton angles are too close to a straight line.
The joint after the bearing needs maybe 2 degrees in angle?
Not just angle, there are other factors too.
The shudder can occur at any speed with drive shafts, as it is related to weight, balance and frequency.
In the end, my friend admitted that there is a small shudder. )

[mgc_020]

Has anyone tried to fit an MN one piece tail shaft to an ML Triton with the two piece shaft? Will it fit? Just trying to find some options to reduce vibration when I put a lift kit in. Thanks

[ag9111]

Put the lift in first then try all the other fixes. Some are affected more than others and can be fixed with a bearing flip only.
I fitted a 2 piece Ml tailshaft to my MN when I damaged it. Should go the other way around as well

[Bigbirdalx]

Pending what yr yiur mn is. Dont flip bearing before driving around for a bit. Two or three of us did the flipp same time as lift, turns out mitsu sends tgen ore flipped from factory now

[NowForThe5th]

mgc, you need to understand that a one piece tailshaft isn't just a drop in replacement for a two piece. It depended on model and engine/gearbox combination as to whether a one or two piece was used. Mine, for example was a V6 manual and there was no way that a one piece tailshaft was ever going to work in that. You could see the angle change even when the wheels were on the ground. A one piece would have hit the cross member, no doubt. Yet, I had minimal shudder after a pretty big lift and flipping the centre bearing.

However, some engine/gearbox/transfer case combinations did come with the one piece. Usually the auto but the Super Select transfer case also adds length.

As Garth says, you don't know if you will have shudder until you actually do the lift and then wedges, centre bearing (if required), gearbox and spacer. Then, and only then, evaluate and decide on the centre bearing mod and/or tailshaft.

Since we've covered this question at least a hundred times I see that there is unlikely to be anything new come of this thread, so I'm going to lock it and merge with another later.

[Tolonggezzz]

Gents,

I am quite new in this forum - i apologise if you provided your advice over and over again with lift kits and shudder issues. But here I go again...

I have a 2007 Mitsubishi Triton ML Dual cab (plus an arb bullbar) and I wanted to put a lift to it (50mm is the legal ones without engineer's certificate) - so I would settle for that

I have discussed the first option - ARB and OME lifts but they would just give 10/20mm lift but they guarantee no shudder issues will arise. But 10/20mm is not my target. We discussed the option of fitting Ultimate suspension or Dobinson. Both of which can give a 50mm lift but the issues of shudder will be present. Is there any way that if i decided to install a lift kit which one would you guys recommend? Which one is less likely to have a shudder issue and if so is there any fix to it? Price is also a big factor as I wouldnt want to shed as much $$$ on mods. I have a long way to go (diff lockers, snorkels, bash plates - of which any recommendations are most welcomed and appreciated)

Also, do you have any recommendations on where is a good mechanic here in Perth/rockingham area that can do the job? I just moved here couple of months ago, with new car (triton) and I left my old jeep in NSW (yes i was enlighten and shifted to mitsi triton).

Gents, thank you very much for reading my post and I look forward to you responses based on your hard-earned experience on and off the road (mostly off road )

Best regards,
Tolonggezzz

[Tolonggezzz]

Gents,

I am quite new in this forum - i apologise if you provided your advice over and over again with lift kits and shudder issues. But here I go again...

I have a 2007 Mitsubishi Triton ML Dual cab (plus an arb bullbar) and I wanted to put a lift to it (50mm is the legal ones without engineer's certificate) - so I would settle for that

I have discussed the first option - ARB and OME lifts but they would just give 10/20mm lift but they guarantee no shudder issues will arise. But 10/20mm is not my target. We discussed the option of fitting Ultimate suspension or Dobinson. Both of which can give a 50mm lift but the issues of shudder will be present. Is there any way that if i decided to install a lift kit which one would you guys recommend? Which one is less likely to have a shudder issue and if so is there any fix to it? Price is also a big factor as I wouldnt want to shed as much $$$ on mods. I have a long way to go (diff lockers, snorkels, bash plates - of which any recommendations are most welcomed and appreciated)

Also, do you have any recommendations on where is a good mechanic here in Perth/rockingham area that can do the job? I just moved here couple of months ago, with new car (triton) and I left my old jeep in NSW (yes i was enlighten and shifted to mitsi triton).

Gents, thank you very much for reading my post and I look forward to you responses based on your hard-earned experience on and off the road (mostly off road )

Best regards,
Tolonggezzz

[Cowboy Dave]

Not having much joy there mate. When I am doing a post I will sometimes type it up in word (or you could use notepad or wordpad) and then paste it into the box on the browser. You might have a bit more luck that way than the above?

[Bigbirdalx]

Gents,

I am quite new in this forum - i apologise if you provided your advice over and over again with lift kits and shudder issues. But here I go again...

I have a 2007 Mitsubishi Triton ML Dual cab (plus an arb bullbar) and I wanted to put a lift to it (50mm is the legal ones without engineer's certificate) - so I would settle for that

I have discussed the first option - ARB and OME lifts but they would just give 10/20mm lift but they guarantee no shudder issues will arise. But 10/20mm is not my target. We discussed the option of fitting Ultimate suspension or Dobinson. Both of which can give a 50mm lift but the issues of shudder will be present. Is there any way that if i decided to install a lift kit which one would you guys recommend? Which one is less likely to have a shudder issue and if so is there any fix to it? Price is also a big factor as I wouldnt want to shed as much $$$ on mods. I have a long way to go (diff lockers, snorkels, bash plates - of which any recommendations are most welcomed and appreciated)

Also, do you have any recommendations on where is a good mechanic here in Perth/rockingham area that can do the job? I just moved here couple of months ago, with new car (triton) and I left my old jeep in NSW (yes i was enlighten and shifted to mitsi triton).

Gents, thank you very much for reading my post and I look forward to you responses based on your hard-earned experience on and off the road (mostly off road )

Best regards,
Tolonggezzz

First question auto or manual?
Easy select or super select

if manual and easy. Dobinsons or ultimates are fine. I fitted ultimates. Had the shudder, played with centre bearing and reduced it, added a dobinsons 22mm tail shafter spacer and reduced even further. If i have 100kg+ in rear tub i can just notice it. Even un loaded its so small a controlled take off has minimal
edit- mine a MN so shudder is worse then ml

[Monkeyz]

So is this issue better or worse in a 2010 MN Manual Super Select ?
and Assuming the previous spec is there a preferred make of upgrade kit ?
Considering I was looking at the ROX Shocks upgrade kit, maybe I have to rethink as data on this 2" lift kit is sparse.

Mojo.

[Tolonggezzz]

hey bidbirdalx

thanks for the response mate. btw i have a manual easy select (i think mine is the base model).
Currently I am at Perth and I need to ring/get in contact with Ultimate Suspension to send the kit here and be installed by a mechanic. I have no tools or place to do the work and I have no previous experience in lifting. How much did it costed you when you fitted your lift? including the 22mm tail shafter spacer from dobo?
for the 22mm tail shafter, did it made a lot of difference? do you recommend fitting the tail shafter in conjunction of the fitting of the lift? (to minimise downtime and maybe... just maybe save some coin on the install cost
and when you said you had a play with the centre bearing, did you do it with a mechanic? Again, forgive my ignorance... i havent meet my triton's centre bearing yet. haha.
im still thinking of going dobo - any feedbacks or ultimate is better?

cowboy,
wilco. thanks.
tolonggezzz

[Greedy]

I'd suggest getting the lift fitted first to find out what shudder you get. The tail shaft spacer and the centre bearing are quick and easy jobs requiring a spanner and can be done afterwards easily. You may not need them though. Tools are cheaper than mechanics and the fixes aren't hard to do especially once the car is lifted.

[NowForThe5th]

Myth busting time again.

There is absolutely no difference between the propensity for an ML to suffer from shudder and an MN where they are identically specced in terms of gearbox and transfer case.

So, a manual GLX-R ML with Easy Shift will have exactly the same likelihood to suffer from shudder as a manual GLX MN with Easy Shift. ML or MN makes no difference. Same goes for any other gearbox and transfer case combination. The chassis are the same.

This is possibly the combination that is most susceptible to shudder since it is the shortest in length and has a two piece tailshaft with centre bearing. If you have a one piece tailshaft then shudder is not an issue for you.

A "2 inch" lift which raises the rear heights to around 630mm, or higher, may suffer from shudder but the degree varies from vehicle to vehicle.

A tailshaft spacer does not reduce shudder. Instead it allows the tailshaft to drop to the limit of the suspension (usually determined by the shock absorbers) which otherwise may have been restricted by the shorter length of the standard tailshaft. It is something that should be done when the lift is installed.

Shudder is most noticeable when empty (i.e. rear suspension at around 630mm). Even a small reduction in this can make shudder disappear. For me, about 100kg load was enough to drop the rear enough to make shudder almost disappear. With 200kg load the shudder was gone. I never measured it but I'd guess that each 100kg equated to a drop of around 10mm in rear suspension height.

Shudder is noticeable only when first taking off and accelerating. Once you reach more than a few km/h it will disappear. It doesn't hurt anything other than your pride.

It is pointless to worry about shudder before you instal a lift. You may not get it at all. If you do get it it may be so mild as to not be a concern or you may run with a constant load, albeit small, but enough to negate the shudder.

If you do get shudder then there are specific steps that you can take to reduce or eliminate it. These are, in order:
1. Caster wedges (usually supplied with a lift kit, but sometimes not. 3 degrees is usually enough;
2. Centre bearing rotation;
3. Gearbox mount spacing;
4. Brett05's centre bearing mod; and,
5. One piece tailshaft.

For most people 1 and 2 are enough. Some require the 3rd step and very few need the 4th. I don't think anyone has needed the 5th after the others, but a few have jumped steps and done this.

Steps 1, 2 and 3 are all quite simple and can be done at home by anyone who can use a spanner. Step 4 requires competent welding skills and Step 5 needs money.

There are many members who have installed the Dobinsons kit. Interesting thing is that, of the longer standing members who did this, most have since replaced all or part of that kit with Ultimate components. Now, what does that tell you?

[Greedy]

A tailshaft spacer does not reduce shudder.

I don't agree here Chris. I installed my Dobinson suspension and has a shudder until ahlf way through second gear. Roughly 30km/h. I then installed the tailshaft spacer which reduced the shudder till about 15km/h. Rotating the centre bearing then reduced it to virtually nothing as exists today.

There are many members who have installed the Dobinsons kit. Interesting thing is that, of the longer standing members who did this, most have since replaced all or part of that kit with Ultimate components. Now, what does that tell you?

This tells me I'm in need of new suspension. I need a trip to Sydney,

[Bigbirdalx]

A tailshaft spacer does not reduce shudder.

I don't agree here Chris. I installed my Dobinson suspension and has a shudder until ahlf way through second gear. Roughly 30km/h. I then installed the tailshaft spacer which reduced the shudder till about 15km/h. Rotating the centre bearing then reduced it to virtually nothing as exists today.
,

Im gonna dissagree with u 5th. Ither im the pope and have magical abilities, or the moment i installed the spacer, same as greedy, i had a instant result of minimised shudder.
this is in a unloaded rear ute.

[ag9111]

Wow, 5th getting something wrong.

My world has just crumbled