Suspension lift....shudder

Suspension lift....shudder

Postby Wallace on Thu May 29, 2008 7:21 am

With all the chat on this forum regarding suspension lifts and the associated shudder people are experiencing I would have thought that the manufacturers of these products would have sorted out all the bugs before the products were released. It appears to me that they are relying on customer feed back with arising problems and then attempt to sort them out, which in the long run means inconvenience for you the consumer. Perhaps they should do their homework and filed test these before they are set upon the market place. I would presume that some testing is done BUT is it adequate??? I for one have put the lift on the backburner till someone comes out with a complete package that does not have any problems. I may be barking up the wrong tree but really with a market place as strong and profitable as the 4wd sector something should be done.....................Apparently this shudder problem is only inherant with the manual tri and does not show its ugly head in with the automatic trans model?????
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Suspension lift....shudder

Postby jacko on Thu May 29, 2008 7:28 am

i agree mate, my shudder has slowly dissapeared but dont know if it has caused any damaging wear.
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Suspension lift....shudder

Postby Jitsukablue on Thu May 29, 2008 7:42 am

I'm sure the engineers at the top of the chain would be aware that it is a potential problem, but they do what they are paid to do.
Until word gets out that people aren't buying manual tritons because they can't be lifted, then they won't care.
What actually causes the shudder?
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Suspension lift....shudder

Postby jacko on Thu May 29, 2008 7:51 am

the tail shaft is two piece so when the back of the car is lifted the angle from the tail shaft joint to the diff is slightly changed so when in take off from first gear you get a shudder until the the shaft has enough momentum to straight out. i think lifting the front as high as the back may help but then the car will sag at the back when loaded with a trailer for example which will make the ride height look funny.
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Suspension lift....shudder

Postby 4wd26 on Thu May 29, 2008 7:56 am

I think the problem is the consumer in this case.

We want a 2" lift (thats pretty well regarded as the industry standard, the experts (those who want to protect there reputation) only produce a kit with 1" lift (ever stop and think why???)

Other suspension people will produce a kit that meets what the market wants, who ultimatly suffers from this??

Then there are still others that still hav't released to the market. These are trying to meet the customer needs (2" lift) as well as overcome any problems this may have on the drivability of the vehicle.

I think you can guess the market players talked about above.

You pay your money and you take the results. Whose problem is it anyway????
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Suspension lift....shudder

Postby Wallace on Thu May 29, 2008 7:56 am

My post was directed a the after market manufacturers. I realise that vehicle manufacturers have the intent of producing vehicles suited to a particular market and would like to capture the biggest slice of that market place as possible. Locally is seems that the Mitsu Triton is selling great guns against it's competitors in the market place. I for one am glad that I purchased the Triton and I did compare, drive all the other vehicles in the market place at length before I made my decision, but as I said this was purely directed at the accessory manufacturers............and they also employ top engineers.
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Suspension lift....shudder

Postby GLX-RSilver on Thu May 29, 2008 11:14 am

With the shudders that the triton have with a lift well its not the only 4wd that suffers from that problem as hiluxs also can suffer from it. What about jeep wranglers they have vibration problems i know my gq patrol with a 4inch lift would have front end shudder when the hubs were locked in. Car manufacture build cars to a standard they don't plan to sell cars with lift kits so it's not they fault they may have vibration problems. Every vehicle made doesn't fit everybody who buys if they did we would all be driving model t fords. Thats why people alter cars to suit there own needs. I will fix my vibration problem with my lift and at the moment it is nearly done so it shouldn't be too long until it is fixed.
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Suspension lift....shudder

Postby King Triton on Fri May 30, 2008 12:42 am

If you get a lift and you end up with a shudder then get your money back and return to normal until the suspension manufacturer has a proper fix for the problem.
The suspension companies would not have a leg to stand on if you had to go to the Department of fair trading to get it sorted out.
Because all suspension manufacturers state that there products will make your car HANDLE and drive better as well as giving you more ground clearance.
So if the suspension lift is causing drive shaft shudder that was not there before it was fitted then the suspension is not doing the job/purpose it was installed/purchased for.
as well as causing damage to other parts which they should be liable for becuase there itiem does not suit the purpose it was built/used for.
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Suspension lift....shudder

Postby Wallace on Fri May 30, 2008 8:34 am

Glx-r I have watched with some intent the progress of your tri, very impressive I must say. BUT I know you have spent a lot of time trying to sort out the shudder problems, which in the long run when you get a fix with benefit all and sundry on this site. My original post was to try and bring to the attention of members who have or intend to lift the vehicle that the manufacturers of these after market products should be called to action and take responsibility. I do not believe that you or us as consumers should be liable for the reperation of inherant faults.BTW there is enough people out there who enjoy the 4wd scene to get together and do something about this. department of fair trading.....please. Imaging if any one particular manufacturer was bombarded with e-mails complaining about these problems and copies of said e-mails cc to all the mags........bring it on.....
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Suspension lift....shudder

Postby GLX-RSilver on Fri May 30, 2008 10:10 am

Hey there wallace i understand where your coming from i don't think mitsubishi is at fault as they sell the car as they do and develop that car that way. It's us the consumer wanting a higher lift.
Thats where it comes down to the aftermarket suppliers to sell a product that causes no extra strain or problems to the vehcile.
You look at ARB they important a hilux and developed the suspension before the hilux was released into australia.
Thats where other aftermarket dealers don't!
So us the ginea pigs have these problems with there products, it's wrong as they should of developed it before releasing it rather then thinking all vehicles are the same what will work on one 4wd will be the same on another.
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Suspension lift....shudder

Postby jop on Fri May 30, 2008 8:30 pm

The main problem is the 'shudder is there before any lift, some have it worse than others, i know i can feel it, but probably only because i was looking for it.

I won't be lifting mine until a decent solution is found, which i am confident will be found.


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Suspension lift....shudder

Postby sjp on Fri May 30, 2008 9:15 pm

tough tog is supposeldy still working on theirs,full credit to them for not throwing some shockies and springs to joe public and saying all the normal blurb a kit comes with,
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Suspension lift....shudder

Postby jan.dup on Sat May 31, 2008 8:24 am

I agree with all your thoughts on the aftermarket guys to sort out before releasing a suspension kit etc, but would think that it's a dual responsibility from the aftermarket guys as well as Mitsu - If I develop a 4by and want a decent slice of the market I would deffo look at, yes the people who drive them 4by's with standard specs but, its also a known fact that serious offraoders (and some who want to show off?) will lift their vehicles and/or put new suspension in to cater for extra weight due to accessories, better clearance etc, etc. and therefore they must take that into consideration when developing their vehicle. Otherwise they must specify that their product is not suitable for that sector of the market - and in doing this I can promise you that much less Tritons will be sold. If Mitsu is then saying, ok we sell the Triton and its not suited for any suspension alterations and or modifications at all, I deffinitely have a problem with that, and this will deffo reduce the amount of Tritons being sold. If other ute manufacturers then says - yes we developed our ute to cater for the standard ride guys as well as those who wanna go a bit further (and there's a helluva lot of them (50%+ ?)) - which one will then have the better slice of the pie !? I do'nt say cater for everything but do a bit of research and develop your ute to suit best the outcome on avarages of the research. Example - Avarage lift done by 4by oke's is 2inch - develop and test if this is possible. As it is, the Triton is not suited for any lift - and the standard suspension (especially at the rear) is at best crappy. With this said, I still do love my truck !!
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Suspension lift....shudder

Postby dezman on Sat May 31, 2008 8:49 am

Can someone tell me, does the shudder only happen from lifting the back or does it occur in both fron't and back?? :-)
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Suspension lift....shudder

Postby GLX-RSilver on Sat May 31, 2008 9:05 am

Hey dezman the front doesn't suffer front vibration problems it's just from the rear tailshaft as the tailshaft angle changes with the lift. Auto don't seem to have the problem as they have a 1 piece tailshaft.
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Suspension lift....shudder

Postby Wallace on Sat May 31, 2008 9:26 am

Cant really push any blame to any of the vehicle manufacturers, after all they produce vehicles suited to their position in the market place. Spoke to an unmaned distributor during the week and their suspension kit only raises the original height by 15mm. The biggest problem is the increased angle in the rear section of the shaft.... from centre bearing to diff flange. Might drag the tri into the workshop and jack it up and measure the increased angle of the rear half of the shaft...........just for the purpose of the exercise and let you all know............
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Suspension lift....shudder

Postby GLX-RSilver on Sat May 31, 2008 9:33 am

Hey there wallace have you put wedges on your leaf springs?
Before i did my diff angle was 3 degrees compared to 6 degrees at the gearbox and 9 degrees on the rear tailshaft.
I fitted 5 degree wedges which brought the angles to 6 degrees from tailshaft, 8 degrees rear tailshaft and 7 degrees diff angle so it is nearly right as the information i downloaded from the internet said the tailshaft angle from gearbox to diff needs to be within 1 degrees with a operating range of 3 degrees.
I also have 5mm gearbox spacers.
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Suspension lift....shudder

Postby Wallace on Sat May 31, 2008 10:30 am

GLX have not lifted YET, was going to do a test lift using air jacks under the rails etc. appears you have already done the homework for me, Thankyou. As you have investigated all the avenues.Have the wedges improved the vibration problem?
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Suspension lift....shudder

Postby GLX-RSilver on Sat May 31, 2008 10:40 am

Hey wallace yes my vibration is nearly fixed it has a slight vibration on take off other then that it's fine. I'm waiting until i am happy with the height before i fix it completely. I'm planning of making 7 to 8 degree wedges. Does your car have any vibration problems? Could you let me know what the standard tailshaft angles are if possible? Eg. front tailshaft, rear tailshaft and diff pinion angle. Cheers
PS i'll pm you next week about the door moulds Cheers
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Suspension lift....shudder

Postby Wallace on Sat May 31, 2008 10:46 am

Absolutely no vibration problems with the standard ride height. I will let you know standard angles via pm. The moulds, just let me know and I will organise... TA!
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Suspension lift....shudder

Postby rick on Sat May 31, 2008 10:55 am

not all get it,i have a very very faint one only on take off which i can ignore easily. i have been in a standard triton with a lot worse.
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Suspension lift....shudder

Postby Mud16 on Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:48 am

Hey Glx silver is it any better if you put a raise block on the splt shaft guide and decrease the angle
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Suspension lift....shudder

Postby Blue on Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:18 am

reading with interest as my '03 had a nauseating shudder on take off with standard suspension... I was told it was the factory clutch causing the problem and after having a heavy duty aftermarket clutch fitted, the shudder is gone...

As I don't have my new ML yet (a week or two away) I'm curious to find out if the shudder is the same...
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Suspension lift....shudder

Postby GLX-RSilver on Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:33 am

Hey there Mud nah i wish it was, it actually has to go lower not higher. I have to work out how to lift the gearbox another 5mm that would fix it except there isn't enough thread on the gearbox mount. I am thinking of lowering the gearbox cross member, then making a spacer for the gearbox mount with recessed bolt holes then drilling 2 new holes in the crossmember to bolt it to the spacer. It sounds hard but it shouldn't be too bad. I hope you understand what i mean? I'll have photos once i do it.
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Suspension lift....shudder

Postby GLX-RSilver on Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:36 am

Hey blue No the vibration on a ML is coming from the tailshaft as the angle is wrong when lifted causing the tailshaft to become out of balance and whip at lower speeds.
There is a thread around with a video of the tailshaft shaking.
It only seems to be a prolblem with diesel manual tritons only as auto have a 1 piece tailshaft.
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