chip it fuel rail pressure limiter

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Re: chip it fuel rail pressure limiter

Postby coughy on Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:50 pm

Tony wrote:The limiter valve is not easy to test as such, but should they bug out, you will notice the fuel pressure ramping up towards 20,000odd PSI then suddenly dropping back while the engine is under load.

Here is a factory item (This one bugged out well below 20,000psi) with internals removed and ready to be refurbished to Hi-spec.

IMG_20150204_233540.jpg



These come apart very easily, but care must be taken as to prevent personal injury or losing any parts!!! Wrap it in a rag if punching the seat out.

Reassembly requires holding the seat back in place against the spring tension and crimping the seat in position. Again, care should be taken as to prevent injury, loosing parts or damaging the limiter.


so in saying this tony will it do it all of the time or only some times??
as today i went for a drive and i did notice the rail pressure drop from 22000 down to 16000 even 12 at some times under full load..
does it drop when gear changes happen?? (on the upshift foot to the wall) mine does all of the time
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Re: chip it fuel rail pressure limiter

Postby nobeachwork on Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:11 am

Swapped my rail limiter over on the weekend with my chip it high spec one i have had for ages! I have been putting this off because i had already installed the tjm dual battery tray and if you have installed one of these you know it aint coming out easy!!!

It was abit tricky getting to the egr pipe heat shield other than that the tray was actually handy for keeping track of bolts spanners rum cans etc
[url][URL=http://s1066.photobucket.com/user/ryanclarke81/media/photo%201_zpsxyutsqkc.jpg.html]Click to view larger picture[/url][/url]

On another note i had a squizz down the intake manifold and found a decent palmfull of carbon sitting there where the egr system connects in, check this out, bit hard to see but thats what 60,000k's of carbon buildup looks like!!!

[url][URL=http://s1066.photobucket.com/user/ryanclarke81/media/carbon%204_zps2mjmoy3g.jpg.html]Click to view larger picture[/url][/url]
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Re: chip it fuel rail pressure limiter

Postby dan.batto on Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:44 am

Funny you posted this ^^ i just emailed tony chasing one and am about to post a wtb hoping someone wants to sell!
How did u go with leaks?
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Re: chip it fuel rail pressure limiter

Postby nobeachwork on Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:45 pm

No leaks yet, however i did bend my sidcrome 19mm ring spanner in the process!!!
I will try get hold of Tony and send him my factory limiter to get re-built.
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Re: chip it fuel rail pressure limiter

Postby Raccoontriton on Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:17 am

aren't the chip-it rail limiters just a blank?
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Re: chip it fuel rail pressure limiter

Postby mattz on Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:00 am

Raccoontriton wrote:aren't the chip-it rail limiters just a blank?

I think there are two types......a high spec limiter and a blank type
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Re: chip it fuel rail pressure limiter

Postby Tony on Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:04 am

There are five types floating around.
The disc, billet limiter (is a brick), new manufactured with hi-spec leak off spring, refurbished OEM and OEM with bung fitted at banjo end (Is also a brick).

The refurbished OEM are most successful for milder tunes (providing innards not damaged)as build quality is far superior to others.

Problem is, the OEM limiters are scarce at the moment hence we can not refurbish and keep stock for those who need them.

Those wanting to run extreme rail pressures, brick the limiter as some hi-spec type wont hold.

:arrow: Remove the chip (or set to default tune) prior to running leak test with MUT3 or it will ramp fuel pressure higher and blow the limiter. I recon this is what has killed most of them.
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Re: chip it fuel rail pressure limiter

Postby carrrake on Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:53 am

This would be most relevant thread I suppose

I am chasing a high spec fuel rail limiter. I would rather buy one from Tony but I am seeing a lot of discussion about him being too busy. So I have found another source.

https://chiptuning.com.au/products-page ... e-limiter/

Has anyone used this mob, or even brought a fuel rail limiter of them?
After years of running reasonable tune from chip it, I believe my limiter is starting to let go with unpredictable flat spots. I did receive the blank from chipit but wasn't convinced it was a good idea. 5 years on I think it's time for an up spec unit
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Re: chip it fuel rail pressure limiter

Postby Zwagerman9 on Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:15 pm

I have got the above unit installed. I had to install it due to it going into limp mode with a chip running a low tune on a MQ triton. Easy enough to install. I had previously owned a D4D running a custom tune. I initially went the chip route to cause less problems with my warranty. I probably will get the MQ tuned in the next 3-6 months.
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Re: chip it fuel rail pressure limiter

Postby carrrake on Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:54 pm

Ah a hilux convert 8-)

Cool, so did the chiptuning fuel limiter sort out your problem? And more importantly, no fuel leaks on the fuel rail?

Out of curiostity, what CEL did you get to cause it going into limp mode?
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Re: chip it fuel rail pressure limiter

Postby Zwagerman9 on Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:08 pm

The fuel limiter fixed up the limp problem straight away. But I definately have more confidence in a tune than my chip. I couldn't tell you the code it was showing. But basically any tune in the chip greater than 2 (0 to 9) once revs pulled higher than 3000rpm it would hit limp mode.I was able to reset by turning the engine off an on again. No problems since installing the limiter.
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Re: chip it fuel rail pressure limiter

Postby carrrake on Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:37 pm

Awesome.
I managed to track Tony SPV email so ill wait to hear back from him but the chiptuning one will be an excellent back up.

When you say tune, are you talking about an ECU remap? or custom tune using the chip?
Because if i remember correctly, the propblem with an ECU remap is when the Stealer perform a SQL at servicing, it can destroy the fuel limiter as the push the boundaries on fuel pressures checking for fuel leaks, injectors etc etc.
At least with a chip, you can unplug it when you take it into the dealer.
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Re: chip it fuel rail pressure limiter

Postby Zwagerman9 on Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:02 pm

Yeah sorry I am talking about a remap vs a chip. Not a hubdred percent happy with the chip and the turbo lag in 1st. Have been running a chip for 15000km now. Sorry I'm not familar with the acronym SQL. Happy to service through my own mechanic and have them clearly document OEM service parts used. Must note my wife's diesel outlander chipped performs amazingly. I do use the stealer for its servicing as bartered in 10 year 200something km warranty.
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Re: chip it fuel rail pressure limiter

Postby L200Shogun on Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:47 pm

SMALL INJECTION QUANTITY LEARNING (SQL)

The fuel injection characteristics of the injectors and the friction resistances in the cylinders vary slightly by cylinder. Engine-ECU learns these differences and makes compensations so that the fuel injection amounts in the cylinders are uniform.
Engine-ECU uses the crank angle sensor to detect the speed for each cylinder during combustion and memorizes the cylinder differences in the form of learned values. Then, the learned values remain stored in engine-ECU memory until it is updated.
This learning takes place automatically after the vehicle travels a predetermined distance. It is normal for the engine to sound somewhat different from the ordinary during the learning process. Furthermore, it is possible to force the engine-ECU to learn through the use of the M.U.T.-III.
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Re: chip it fuel rail pressure limiter

Postby carrrake on Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:38 pm

Zwagerman9 wrote:Yeah sorry I am talking about a remap vs a chip. Not a hubdred percent happy with the chip and the turbo lag in 1st. Have been running a chip for 15000km now. Sorry I'm not familar with the acronym SQL. Happy to service through my own mechanic and have them clearly document OEM service parts used. Must note my wife's diesel outlander chipped performs amazingly. I do use the stealer for its servicing as bartered in 10 year 200something km warranty.


Have a read of this thread. Surprising not that old, but explains what i mean. SQL is a part of Mits servicing when ever injectors or fuel systems are involved

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=21156
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Re: chip it fuel rail pressure limiter

Postby NowForThe5th on Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:15 pm

carrrake wrote:Because if i remember correctly, the propblem with an ECU remap is when the Stealer perform a SQL at servicing, it can destroy the fuel limiter as the push the boundaries on fuel pressures checking for fuel leaks, injectors etc etc.


Kinda....

A chip modifies the signals from the various sensors before they go to the ECU. So, what the ECU sees isn't what is really happening, rather what the chip wants the ECU to see/believe and to respond accordingly. So, for example, the chip may tell the ECU that the rail pressure is x when it is actually y, which might be quite a bit higher than x. Based on the information received the ECU responds by increasing rail pressure, which is exactly what the chip wants the ECU to do.

With a remap this does not happen. The data sent to the ECU is untampered with, so in the above example, it would know when rail pressures are approaching the pre-determined limit. Some tuners will adjust these limits slightly, but not too much because they are the safety limits to prevent the engine from going bang. Bear in mind that the factory set tuning in the ECU is usually fairly conservative so additional power can, and is, programmed in the remap.

In the course of doing an SQL rail pressures are ramped up, as you correctly say. A chip should be disconnected or set to not change the values from the rail, thus allowing the ECU to see reality and to not exceed any safety limits. With a retuned ECU this is not necessary since the ECU does know what is happening.
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Re: chip it fuel rail pressure limiter

Postby carrrake on Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:53 pm

NowForThe5th wrote:In the course of doing an SQL rail pressures are ramped up, as you correctly say. A chip should be disconnected or set to not change the values from the rail, thus allowing the ECU to see reality and to not exceed any safety limits. With a retuned ECU this is not necessary since the ECU does know what is happening.


Ahhh that makes sense, but its still a waste of remap if it changes the parameters of the custom tune, hence chip is a better option. Provided you remember to remove it before dealer servicing
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Re: chip it fuel rail pressure limiter

Postby ag9111 on Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:05 pm

SQL and other learns do not change the remap
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Re: chip it fuel rail pressure limiter

Postby carrrake on Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:15 pm

Ok now im totally confused, this is the first paragraph of the thread i linked to above. It goes on in more detail but heres the jist of it

coughy wrote:Ok so i dont know where to put this but here looks ok i have had a remap done as most ove you know
i have just learnt that you CAN NOT DO A SQL now that it is remapped on a mitsubishi as it tries to remove / lean out the mapping that has been done

:?:
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Re: chip it fuel rail pressure limiter

Postby coughy on Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:03 pm

yes they do gareth i have had it happen first hand had to get map loaded again

so yes the sql does muck with the lower end tune
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Re: chip it fuel rail pressure limiter

Postby dsp26 on Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:49 am

Reviving an old thread instead of creating ew. I have a couple of questions regarding this pressure relief valve with regards to a "tuned" MN.

I had a remap done and tuned on the dyno, could have probably been refined a lot more given my tuner only spent about 4hrs on the dyno with it, but suspect there was more rail pressure increasing than actual injector pulse tuning. I've noticed my OBD2 rail pressure reading can peak at roughly 26,000psi, but at times stable out to around 22,000psi when in full throttle load up a hill, sometimes it feels gutsy, sometimes it feels gutless. (have tested at both 21psi and 25psi with tillix valve)

So am wondering, if the pressure relief valve does leak off pressure and am underfueling, but the rail sensor can still read 26,000psi.

How do I know when I need this uprated pressure relief valve? And is the 3.2(4m41) the same as the 2.5 (4d56u) as there is someone selling the chipitone locally for the 3.2 if it fits in my 2.5?
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Re: chip it fuel rail pressure limiter

Postby NowForThe5th on Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:27 am

When the pressure i the rail exceeds the limit of the valve the excess is bled off and returned to the tank. A sensor detects this and shuts everything down. You will know all about it, believe me. It will feel like you've just hit a brick wall and the engine will go into lump mode. A restart will usually reset it but a code will be logged.

It would be quite rare for a remap to result in rail pressure so high that it goes above the limit of the valve. With a piggyback chip though it's quite common, especially for the higher performance tunes.
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Re: chip it fuel rail pressure limiter

Postby dsp26 on Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:19 pm

NowForThe5th wrote:When the pressure i the rail exceeds the limit of the valve the excess is bled off and returned to the tank. A sensor detects this and shuts everything down. You will know all about it, believe me. It will feel like you've just hit a brick wall and the engine will go into lump mode. A restart will usually reset it but a code will be logged.

It would be quite rare for a remap to result in rail pressure so high that it goes above the limit of the valve. With a piggyback chip though it's quite common, especially for the higher performance tunes.


Interesting, i'll have to post a video of a few sensors worth of data on a histogram when i get a chance to do a pull up hill and wife records.

In most cases, my peak pressure can reach 23,000psi, sometimes it spikes to just over 26,000psi. When in tiptronic and manually shifting and flat-footing throttle, SOMETIMES rail pressure gets stuck around 15,000-16,000psi, sometimes around 7,000psi and only quickly letting off throttle and going back on on gets it past it.

No rail pressure errors or SCV errors, and no limp or sudden "hitting brick wall" feeling like the P1298 overboost error. Fuel filter is new sakura (11 microns from memory) and new donaldson post filter (3micron) and SCV is new + each tank gets 50ml fuel doctor. It feels like the time i had a blocked fuel filter, but that happened all the time on load, this only happens sometimes and letting of throttle fixes it instantly unlike a blocked filter.

I did at some point a couple of months ago try the longer SCV which from some research here indicates its diesel pump specific to the new models, this ended up peaking my rail pressure to about 30,000psi whilst cranking and made loud squealing noises (end scv fault error), at which point i removed it and put the old one back on until i could get a short model replacement.

Was wondering if this episode could have busted my pressure relief valve the same way the system gets overpressurised whilst pressure testing with the chip etc. Its been slightly harder to start in the mornings and get white smoke on startup (glow plugs and fuse ok)
Last edited by dsp26 on Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: chip it fuel rail pressure limiter

Postby dsp26 on Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:22 pm

but anyways, question still stands.. are the relief valves the same between 4m41/3.2 and 4d56/2.5 or nay?


also, what is the OEM valves supposed "limit"?
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Re: chip it fuel rail pressure limiter

Postby NowForThe5th on Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:57 pm

When I bought my chip it came out of a 4D56 and the pressure relief valve fitted my 4M41. It wouldn't take the pressure.

There were some modified high pressure valves around that Tony made, not many, but even they weren't enough for what I was running and I blew one of those too. So I bricked it. Not really a good idea since I subsequently blew a hole in the rail itself. Expensive, but I'm running a much lower tune now.

With a chip the only readings I get are modified, so I can't get an actual reading on the rail pressure.
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