Surging but not carbon related

[Antkenn]

I have a mn 2007 diesel 3.2 manual triton.
It has been to Mitsubishi a number of times for warranty work, twice for surging.
It has had all of the modifications with regards to manifolds and carbon as recommend by the dealer.
140,000 is now spout of warranty of course.

It has started surging again this time in second and third gear whilst accelerating and is becoming progressively worse.
Rev range at 2000 rpm, not noticable on the highway at one hundred at all.

Initially only a surging noise,no noticeable movement, now some jerking at forty ks
It doesn't do it for the first two minutes or when cold then it get worse.
They initially thought it was worn tyres.

I was able to get it to surge whilst parked, revving the motor at three to four thousand.
So that ruled out any clutch or drive train issues.

I took the mechanic for a drive the other day and I couldn't get it to do it. We drove for ten minutes, up hills flat, so embarrassed.
It is there ninety percent of the time now but sometimes not.
If I t urn the car off for five minutes say to go shopping again its not there for the first two minutes.

Mitsubishi brushed me off after that incident, flashed the computer to retrain the injectors.
Not fixed of course.

They now want it for a day, when they have time, to pull off the top inlet manifold to check for carbon. They claim the mods would prevent the sensor being clogged.
A complete clean of the manifolds is quoted at six hundred plus.

I pulled the inlet manifold apart myself, whilst the pipe has some carbon and sludge it is mostly clear.
The sensor is clear, I pushed some wire thought the hole its fine.
I did the same to the old sensor hole it is dirty.
I hoped dirty terminals and that pulling them off and on might help, no.

The car has plenty of power, fuel economy on the highway is around eight with overall ten per hundred ks.
Not blowing any smoke.
The mechanic claims the two minutes delay is because the computer initially runs the mixture a little rich.
He doesn't know of any vacuum related issues.

I have replaced fuel filters, all the belts.
All services are up to date.
All recall items up to date, Mitsubishi performed some software upgrade two weeks ago.

My 2000 model Pajero had some limp mode issues related to a sensor on the injection pump.
Anyone have any thought please.?
I took photos of the manifold if needed.

The car is becoming I'd

[Cowboy Dave]

SCV? MAP sensor?

[Antkenn]

Sorry cowboy Dave but I'm relatively ignorant of those two terms. I'll do some research. Been reliant on the dealers till now. I thought that those would have been checked. Thanks I'll track those down

[coxy47]

If its not the manifolds its most likely the suction control valve (SCV). Its part of the common rail system and effectively regulates the rail pressure. If the valve is sticking which is quite common the fuel pressure will fluctuate excessively causing surging.

[Antkenn]

Ok Coxy47 is that the sensor that's located on the firewall. If it is the one that's been relocated on the new upper manifold I checked its clear of carbon. If not where do I locate it. I see a link to download the worship manual but the link has been removed. Sorry for the ignorance.

[coxy47]

Sorry mate not certain on its position but pretty sure its on the back of the common rail. Could be wrong though. More to the point it cant be cleaned as far as I'm aware. Just needs to be replaced.

From your description of the sensor you checked id say that's the map sensor.

[Antkenn]

thanks coxy47 its my next target.
Does driving the car whilst surging cause any short or long term damage?

[coxy47]

I'm no expert but it shouldn't. Modern cars are good at going into limp modes and generating engine lights before causing any damage.

[Naff]

I've got a similar issue at the moment, I just need to get it to surge when I'm driving past Eagers to demonstrate it to them.. It's just intermittent at the moment.

[Antkenn]

Naff,
In my experience don't turn it off, let it idle because it won't bloody do it agin with the mech riding next to you.
I was able to get mine to surge in neutral reving the engine at three to four thousand.
Seems to do it most of the time now, just waiting for the big bang, or even better error codes, woohoo

[Homer]

Have a read of these links below for some tips mate. They aren't too long and should get you up to speed pretty quickly. One of them also has a photo and schematic of it



http://www.newtriton.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=9142&p=185940&hilit=suction+control+valve#p185940

http://www.newtriton.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=7396&p=152973&hilit=suction+control+valve#p152973

>>Surging<<

[bendoon]

Antkenn,
If you go to this web site and read this document it will show you the suction control valve (SCV), its on the back of the pump. I have talk to my diesel expert about this same problem, he says that there are two SCV for these vehicle one is about an inch long, the updated (better) one is longer two inches or more. Its easy to change and the valve cost $250-$350 from memery. He said the shorter SCV does give problems and he advised me to change mine even if there isnt a problem, the toyotas have the same problem. Hope this help. If you have a good diesel workshop near by may hope to talk to them. http://www.samgor.ucoz.ru/_ld/0/5_L200_2.5DI-D.pdf

[Tony]

If you look at a denso parts book there are many SCV's that would fit. Some push, some pull. The triton runs on a rest open system so the SCV infact pulls closed to meter the fuel. Works hardest at idle and over run conditions. The buggers do get bloody hot. The main issue is the coil becoming weak and or small particles making them sticky. I have the later SCV and in conjunction with a 2um secondary filtration have had no more issues. BTW, don't let any one say chips of tunes fry the SCV, quite the opposite actually.

[butundede]

Seems like this surging is a massive headache for all Triton owners!!! And that Mitsu don't really want or know how to fix it under warranty, I'm thinking mass law suite!!!

[mattz]

Seems like this surging is a massive headache for all Triton owners!!! And that Mitsu don't really want or know how to fix it under warranty, I'm thinking mass law suite!!!

I don't think it is a matter of not wanting to know about it.
It more that they have procedures to follow as far as warranty goes and they can't fix a problem that they can't find. It has to be doing it at the time for them to be able see what the problem is.
Class action???? Wow..... I think that might be a bit radical but Erin Brocavitch does live in Australia now.

[Bennys]

Seems like this surging is a massive headache for all Triton owners!!! And that Mitsu don't really want or know how to fix it under warranty, I'm thinking mass law suite!!!

Mine stopped surging after the latest dealer service about 2 months ago.
Had the new ecu flash done and seams to have done the job, have heard of others having issues after the latest reflash though...

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

[biggibbo]

Mine was sorted after they replaced the MAP sensor

[Antkenn]

Thanks guys great stuff.
Went to noosa yesterday it was in a bad mood. This morning I drove to Yandina without a hint, but coming home bad mood again. I'm going to change the fuel control valve for the longer one.. It makes sense to me, intermittent probably means electrical or a sticky coil.
D day is Wednesday at the dealers, so hope to get it sorted by then.
Many thanks or the help, I post a result when found.

[Antkenn]

Wow you people are fantastic.
The detail in the messages is just incredible.
Some of you guys are wizards, I feel so dumb reading someof this technical stuff.

Back to the dealer on Wednesday.
I would have thought that they would have checked for an error codes, but from the description on the invoice I don't think they did.
Is it likely that the SCV can malfunction without throwing error codes?

There are so many sensors in this fuel system, I can't read the codes myself so I'm stuck with the dealer at this stage, but I'm sure going to point them in the right direction and get some satisfaction. Oh they are going to hate that I'm learning so much here

[Cowboy Dave]

Once you've been through having some of these problems it's not hard to identify with the next guy who comes along. That and after a while you start to see patterns. So you feel like you're the only guy with the problem but we might have just seen a dozen guys with the same issue. So that helps some.

The surging is a funny one. It comes and goes for many. There are a few different things that can cause it and it can be hard to know if you've fixed it unless you drive it a lot and wait to see if it returns. Unless it does code you're left testing possibilities until you get it right. Unfortunately not all dealer mechanics/technicians are created equal and sometimes it can take them a few goes

[sheepo]

i had a surgeing problem a while back and found the fuel filter was not bleed properly? bleed it seemed fine after that?
cheers peter

[Antkenn]

The dealer inspected the car yet again, for the third time in three weeks they have updated the software..
Their next port of call was fuel filter, changed two weeks ago, then tappetts..
In all honesty they haven't been done for some time. Booked in for next Wednesday, cold start, at a quoted price including rocket cover gasket for four hundred and forty.. Three hour job..

I see some posts on this so I will see if there is an alternative there.

[Antkenn]

Latest computer update seems to have resolved the problem. The car was still surging for a day or so after but has now improved significantly. Although it had been updated three times in three weeks there must be a number of updates that can be applied. Each time I had been there they charged me for a half hour although I see in some of the forums that the update should take some time. Tappets tomorrow then I hope it will behave.

[biggibbo]

Mine has been completely resolved, but it has taken a good 3+ months to sort out.

All my problems started at the 45,000km service when they did the tappets. Up till that point, the car was flawless (probably a coincidence)

1st they thought it was carbon due the the Km travelled, however it has been blanked since day 1, so knew that wasn't the problem, however the intake was slightly oily, but no gunk. They applied the update, however it threw a code that night and the surging continued.

Next up they replaced the SCV, reflashed it again, and did a fuel relearn, however the problem continued. During this time I noticed the car seemed underpowered as well as the surging continuing.

Finally they diagnosed a faulty Map sensor, and once fitted the surging completely dissappeared. They swapped my MAP sensor with a demo off the lot to confirm that was the problem. Unfortunatley they wouldn't let me keep the part from the demo, and then ordered parts from Japan that took another 4 weeks.

Whilst changing out the MAP sensor, they realised they turbo was leaking oil really bad,and would not build boost sufficiently, so they have now fitted a brand spanker, and I have the power back as well.

It may have taken them a while to find the problem (in my case 3 months and 15,000km) but I am glad it's finally sorted.