Request to Mitsubishi Australia

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Request to Mitsubishi Australia

Postby BillMcQuade on Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:35 am

Hi All,

I have been in correspondence with Mitsubishi Motors Australia Limited (MMAL), in regards to the engine failures on the MN. As MMAL are not particularly forthcoming with info, perhaps it's time we showed them the extent of the concern amongst the Triton community. I have prepared a form letter so that you can copy-and-paste the text into an email, which should be sent to; customerrelations@mmal.com.au

Please send this to them as often as you feel the level of concern warrants :twisted:

We all acknowledge that this issue exists, but the scope is completely unknown. In order to avoid another beat-up on this topic, perhaps this thread could be locked for posting and a separate thread for responses from MMAL could be started? It will be important to gather these responses for future action.

The text is below, please feel free to add your own comments/complaints to the letter when you email MMAL.

Dear Mitsubishi Motors Australia Limited,

As the owner of an MN Triton, I am concerned about the well documented engine failures due overheating. Service campaign 020116 was supposed to partially address this issue, however a number of vehicles have subsequently experienced engine failures after this test. Some vehicles are on their third engine as a result of the overheating.
Many failures have been reported on the internet, including on the NewTritonNet forum, which has a membership of over 23,000. There is a thread devoted to this topic, with nearly 1600 posts.

MMAL have not released any information as to the percentage of Tritons that have experienced engine failures, and have not been forthcoming with any information that will shed any light on the subject. This is leading to a large amount of uncertainty and is of great concern to the owners.

Most importantly, many people have lost faith in their vehicle, and are unwilling to risk taking holidays or trips, out of the fear that they will be stranded far from home. Clearly, this is unacceptable as no-one sets out to buy a vehicle that they can’t trust to be reliable. This well-founded lack of trust impacts on the enjoyment of ownership, and casts a significant shadow of doubt over both the MN Triton and Mitsubishi as a brand.

More significantly, as the MN starts to go out of the warranty period, many people are justifiably concerned that they will be lumbered with extensive repairs out of warranty, and there is a growing suspicion that MMAL have designed the service campaign solely to protect their interests, and de-rated the engines in order to get the vehicles through the warranty period prior to failure. A number of independent tests have shown a difference between the operation of the engine pre and post campaign ECU update.

I expect MMAL to address these concerns with an open exchange of information, detailing;

1. What percentage of MN Tritons sold in Australia have experienced engine failures.
2. The total number of vehicles that have had engine failures.
3. What changes were made to the ECU program during the campaign.
4. How MMAL intends to support people if engine failures due to this issue occur outside of warranty.
5. How MMAL intends to prove to owners that their vehicle is not affected by this issue.

None of these requests are unreasonable, especially given the damage done to the consumer confidence and resale value of the MN Triton as a result of a lack of information from MMAL.

In anticipation of your speedy reply,

INSERT YOUR NAME HERE
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Re: Request to Mitsubishi Australia

Postby Krossbain on Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:39 am

I'm guilty of putting my head in the sand over this issue, my 09 is out of warranty and was hoping the problem would just go away, the cooling campaign would have weeded out the bad ones and all would be good... not so sure now.

MMAL is the only one that would know the truth of the matter... how many have failed, is it like the syncro problem where a bad batch of parts caused issues for a few vehicles? The actual truth may put minds at rest.

The thought however of sitting somewhere in remote Australia with an overheating motor is not a pleasant one.
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Re: Request to Mitsubishi Australia

Postby lgd on Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:32 am

What about sending one to ACCC ?
I used to be uncertain but lately I'm not so sure.
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Re: Request to Mitsubishi Australia

Postby BillMcQuade on Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:12 am

lgd wrote:What about sending one to ACCC ?


One step at a time ;)
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Re: Request to Mitsubishi Australia

Postby explorer.dave on Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:15 am

Good luck with that Bill, but, I will assume that you will get pretty much the same reply that I got from MMAL, which contained no relevant information. I was astounded that I had actually got a reply :roll: :lol:
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Re: Request to Mitsubishi Australia

Postby donks1 on Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:27 pm

I wish you luck Bill, but don't like your chances. I worked for Mits dealers for 20 odd years, and that sort of info is held pretty tightly.
As you are probably aware, Nissan has had issues with the 3.0 "grenade". There are plenty of stories of them going boom, generally from my mates brothers cousins daughters boyfriend. My previous Boss, was National parts manager for Nissan, when I asked him about it, he said the actual figures were less than 1% of all sold.
The bad reputation was out there, nothing they could do about that. Granted Nissans response was less than acceptable, but at least Mitsu is acknowledging it, and is trying to rectify the situation. I wouldn't expect anything more than that from a vehicle manufacturer. As bad as it seems, and as expensive as it is to repair, if you get left without cover, no one is dying from any defect which may exist. Unfortunately, that is how the big boys play. No threat to life, without the chance of massive lawsuits, they will limit their response.

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Re: Request to Mitsubishi Australia

Postby Jrosey on Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:48 pm

Great idea Bill. It is certainly worth a try to get some information. I am currently on my second MN and would like it to last through the warranty and then some. Sometimes a little persistence pays off with a surprising result.
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Re: Request to Mitsubishi Australia

Postby bigjobs on Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:50 pm

I do warranty stuff for a living, not cars, but the manufacturer/dealer response to known issues would be similar if not the same.

Case by case basis and treated with discretion.
Do the minimum required to satisfy obligations.
Don't enter into speculation regarding potential for future failures.

I suspect that the overall failure rate on the MN is actually very small, but despite Mitsubishi's efforts to keep it quiet, the damage to their reputation may end up lasting.

I wouldn't expect them to publicly announce anything, no company would ever consider doing that, but a personal reply to those affected or those with concerns would be appreciated and a chance to show some goodwill.

They have an opportunity to regain some respect and retain the odd customer, the question is, do they actually care?
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Re: Request to Mitsubishi Australia

Postby GLX58 on Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:18 pm

Can't hurt Bill and you're certainly right that hearing from many outweighs the occasional email.

I've emailed in the past and they did reply about 2 months later (tho on the basis i not share, though nothing juicy was there). I am going to follow up with them again in light of recent developments also.

May also send your form letter pending their response.
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Re: Request to Mitsubishi Australia

Postby kxboss on Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:47 pm

Done and sent
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Re: Request to Mitsubishi Australia

Postby croydon on Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:33 am

Sent as well, lets see what happens............
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Re: Request to Mitsubishi Australia

Postby BillMcQuade on Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:13 pm

Keep the pressure on, every letter helps the cause :D
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Re: Request to Mitsubishi Australia

Postby kxboss on Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:59 am

I got a reply saying it being forwarded to MMAL management.
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Re: Request to Mitsubishi Australia

Postby Cowboy Dave on Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:56 am

The more the merrier but we need serious volume.

I've just had a rather pathetic reply to a recent complaint I made. I raised 7 separate issues (including these ones) and they addressed 1 of them - by suggesting I book an inspection with my local dealer.

People need to understand that most of these MNs are still potentially problematic and that those having had the service campaign reflash have likely had their motors de-rated. If that doesn't warrant firing off an email or two to MMAL then I don't know what does.
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Re: Request to Mitsubishi Australia

Postby BillMcQuade on Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:49 am

Daily emails from all concerned owners, is the only way to move forward. I send one every day :lol:

Which just reminded me to send today's offering :twisted:
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Re: Request to Mitsubishi Australia

Postby Cowboy Dave on Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:33 pm

Might want to add a request for information on stock of replacement motors given this facebook post from today.

What's that, you're out of replacement parts? Better make mine a VGT 3.2....
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Re: Request to Mitsubishi Australia

Postby Cowboy Dave on Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:55 pm

58 Guarantee as to repairs and spare parts

(1) If:

(a) a person supplies, in trade or commerce, goods to a consumer; and

(b) the supply does not occur by way of sale by auction;

there is a guarantee that the manufacturer of the goods will take reasonable action to ensure that facilities for the repair of the goods, and parts for the goods, are reasonably available for a reasonable period after the goods are supplied.

The above is from the Australian Consumer Law which applies to post 2011 sales. I've been meaning to write a consumer law thread. Might do that one day. Pre and post the 2011 changes. Meanwhile I'd encourage people to have a good read of the ACCC site before talking to dealers or MMAL about the above sorts of issues.
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Re: Request to Mitsubishi Australia

Postby BillMcQuade on Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:49 am

Cowboy Dave wrote:Might want to add a request for information on stock of replacement motors given this facebook post from today.

What's that, you're out of replacement parts? Better make mine a VGT 3.2....


That would be nice, a 3.2 VGT might open new windows for mods!

Mitsubishi used to keep a lot of parts down in Melbourne (including parts for some of their early models), however, like most manufacturers, they now use cheaper, overseas warehousing for the bulk of their stuff. Too bad if you're a consumer, and needs parts quickly :?

I'd be willing to bet that the normal stockholding, and rack space allocation of long motors is ~10 units (others may have access to information to improve on this estimate). I'd also reckon that the reorder point is probably 2 units, which would probably remain unchanged, as MMA have not handled the issue well, and they probably use a Just-in-Time warehousing system.

Given that we know that at least 47 units have been used (thanks Mako), and conservatively multiplying that by 10, gives us at least 470 units over the last 2 years. Thats nearly 20 units a month, going in and out of the warehouse. When you are talking engines, that's a logistical challenge. Now, they still have plenty of motors (and hopefully gearboxes ) sitting in Thailand, but they come by boat, which is always a problem when planning logistics, due to the many factors that can delay shipping. Throw in the Christmas break, and chaos results.

The problem now arises, that once you start having these items on back-order, it can be difficult to catch up with demand and build a stock level, especially when you have no storage space.

Another question for MMA to answer; is 3 months going to be the new normal for an engine replacement?
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Re: Request to Mitsubishi Australia

Postby bigjobs on Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:10 am

That eta does seem to suggest that the failures are still happening, demand for motors still there :-(
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Re: Request to Mitsubishi Australia

Postby Cowboy Dave on Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:03 am

There's no question that the failures are still happening and will still keep happening. Sorry to rain on anyone's parade that thought the problem was going away.

From what I've heard there were plenty of short motors in stock not all that long ago so perhaps the person above had a bigger failure than normal and needs a long motor? If not then they've worked their way through something like 400 short motors in the space of a couple of months. :shock: :o
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Re: Request to Mitsubishi Australia

Postby RHKTriton on Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:25 am

So who covers the financial impost whilst your investment can't be used for months?

In a way these long warranties being offered by a number of manufacturers are actually just a distraction. After a hundred years of vehicle production you'd think it reasonable to expect products to be well engineered and built to work reliably.

It all starts at the top in any organisation; a lot of execs and other key personnel need to do their job instead of navel gazing and gorging themselves on canapes and drinky poos at various 'business' functions.

If it wasn't for greedy shareholders of these companies we may very well have better product these days. **

** well a lot of products are 'better' than years ago - lots less cars broken down at the side of the road, flat tyres pretty rare, steering columns don't spear drivers on heavy breaking, wheels don't overtake cars much, etc. :lol:
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Re: Request to Mitsubishi Australia

Postby Cowboy Dave on Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:31 am

For post 2011 buyers the ACL says you're entitled to be compensated for such losses. Which is one of the reasons I'm always astonished when people report that dealers refuse to provide loan cars.
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Re: Request to Mitsubishi Australia

Postby explorer.dave on Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:23 am

Couple of months back asked one of the local Mitsi service managers how many motors they have replaced;
6 motors, all of which passed the initial cooling system campaign.
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Re: Request to Mitsubishi Australia

Postby srb on Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:02 pm

I got exactly same lame response email that everyone is getting. They just have it ready copied to send to anyone that asks the difficult questions. They're hiding it for legal reasons so I guess I can understand that.. When you have something to hide you're best not to comment. Or brush over it with a lie by saying it's only a small number. pffff

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Re: Request to Mitsubishi Australia

Postby croydon on Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:03 am

Email & letter sent and same 'say nothing' reply. Is the MN a viable proposition to hang onto after warranty has expired?? Very, very poor from MMAL......

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