Oils aint Oils

[Aussie]

150cst at 40 is way too thick to be a 15w/?

a normal 15w/40 (industry standard etc) is more like 14cst at 100 and 115 at 40, when you see 120cst at 40 you are into the 20w range, too thick for our diesels especially at start up, go higher than this and who knows where you are

compare the 15w/40 in dello to castrol to shell to mobil etc against the penrite and that should tell you something

cheers

[sierra]

OK Aussie, that's scary.
So what are the viscosity figures for Cruiser Oil 15W-40 at 40C and 100C?

[Aussie]

Cruiser Oil is 100cst at 40 (better cold start oil flow) and 15.1 cst at 100, viscosity index of 161, Total base No of 11.8
cheers

[sierra]

I know the higher base number is good.
Can you explain the viscosity index please?
Dello 131
HPR15 155
Cruiser 161

Can we get the Cruiser oil in Perth yet?
If not how about Justin at his Chipit shop carrying some?

[Cowboy Dave]

^^^ What he said but for Sydney and the platinum line as well as the cruiser stuff.

[Aussie]

basically a higher viscosity index (VI) means the oil is better able to withstand the negative effects on viscosity from elevated temperatures, without getting too tech on this, the viscosity's at 40 and 100 also must be looked at as the VI is the result of an equation of the two and when starting with a lower viscosity at 40 (eg cruiser oil) then it is not too difficult to get a higher VI when you want to reach 15cst at 100, this is done by introducing Viscosity Index Improver's (VII) and here is where some companies let us down.

A cheaper type VII will have a lower shear stability index (SSI) and will not perform as well as a better VII at higher temp's ... conclusion in precis ... a higher VI is normally better providing the VII used has a lower SSI, VII are in the main polymers and are subject to shear stress.

The better the SSI (lower number here is better) of the VII then the better the product when chasing a higher VI

We have no one in WA and would welcome any enquirey from there

cheers guys

[Aussie]

Sydney ... try TJM megastore, they did stock it for a while but I think something went wrong and I am not sure if they still have it.

If no luck you can order it direct, pay by card and we can mail it to you ... yes .... good old Aust Post, we have a national contract with them.

cheers

[sierra]

Aussie,
You said before and I quote 'penrite is an ok oil, we just wanted to build something better'. So I assume the only real problem here is that it's too thick cold.
Just out of interest their HPR5 Diesel seems much better.
99 at 40C
14.6 at 100C
Viscosity index 153
Base number 11.9
I always drive gently until the engine's up to temperature so hopefully that counts for something.
If I was a bit younger and staying in Perth I would offer to lease premises and distribute to the retail outlets. Nice little business opportunity I would have thought?

[Aussie]

I still believe penrite is an ok company making ok oils and it is good to see the specs on hpr5, seems they may have got it right on this one, might be interesting to see when they first released hpr5 !!!!

They have always mostly made oils a tad heavier in the past and the above makes a nice change.

Most of the majors are ok also, it is the ones that use terminology like "synthetic enhanced" and "synthetic fortified" that I personally dislike, that is just using the term synthetic in trying to impress those into thinking it is synthetic when in most case's they are no way even near semi synthetic, can someone please tell me what synthetic percentage qualifies as fortified or enhanced as there is no industry standard or guideline on that one.

enhanced and fortified etc are con words to me and those using those terms should be forced to own up on percentages which they never will.

I am also critical of oil companies quoting sae viscosity ratings that do not exist, this I can only deduce is done to either confuse or impress people into buying their product.

cheers

oil choice should be influenced by specification, base oil types, viscosities etc, not on catch words like above

cheers

[Racer]

I am no expert on oil, my mechanic has used Valvoline Super Diesel. I generally run HPR15 and have found the engine seems to run smoother and quieter with this as opposed to the Super Diesel. I have found the Valvoline oil (after 3500k) appears to be very dirty, no way would I let it see out the 15K intervals recommended by MMAL. Our work trucks are serviced by various, dealerships, local mechanic...all TD Rangers, Pajeros and even a Rodeo left. Mineral oil goes in a does not last long...

I have been told, if your oil is clean then its not doing its job. Is this the case?

[daryn]

Does low ash come into this at all? Help reduce carbon buildup ?

[Aussie]

Hi guys, when it comes to used oil colour there are a few considerations

firstly, any diesel oil contains detergents and dispersant s but to different levels depending on the formulation and what spec the blender is out to achieve.

low ash oils traditionally contain less detergent etc than medium ash, medium ash contains less than high ash, you get the picture.

now the more detergent the oil contains the better it will clean inside your engine, so the more detergent the oil has in it the dirtier the oil will look.

sulphated ash levels (www.synforce.com.au/sulphated_ash.html) generally can be aligned with detergent levels, that is, the higher the sulphated ash spec the more detergent required to clean it out.

another factor to be considered is that some diesels produce more contamination (soot etc) than others and this can have the effect of making oil dirty early, even to the point of sludge ... I have seen used oil samples where the oil can be best described as a thickness somewhere between honey and jelly and this is dangerous as oil pumps will not pump jelly

I know from observation that some toyota 4 cyl diesels are very dirty engines and if you have one you should not go past the 5K service interval.

japanese diesels usually require a medium ash except those fitted with DPF's, low ash oils except for the DPF concept are generally not suitable for jap diesels as they generally do not contain enough detergent to keep the engine clean.

It is fair to say as many do that if your diesel oil stays clean it is not doing it's job of cleaning properly and that this will lead to a build up of combustion by-products within your engine, not a desirable thing.

nissan states in some handbooks to avoid CG-4 rated oils but do not say why ... well it may just be because the CG-4 spec is low ash hence low detergent, the earlier CF-4 was med ash and the later CH-4 came in both low and medium ash

oils aint oils hey !!

cheers

[Cowboy Dave]

the magnatec they put in my 2.5 (with DPF) has been black as soot since the first time I checked it. still plenty thin and runny but I'd never seen such black oil in a new car (my first diesel). I spoke to a Mitsubishi mechanic about it but he said that was normal for "run in" oil. have been seriously thinking about a second oil filter to try and screen some of the crap out of it but am not confident to attempt the job myself.

[daryn]

Chaser, any comment ?

[CamboWambo]

I was using Castrol New Gen RX Diesel 15-40 and it was a huge improvement from the (should be outlawed) Tela oil. The store was out of the New Gen RX so I switched to TOTAL Rubia Semi Synthetic Diesel 10-40 and I believe the engine is even smoother now. I read good things about TOTAL and I seen their advertisement banners and flags while watching the Dakar Rally a couple months ago or so. I just got back a couple days ago from a 1,200 Kilo round trip to the mountains and I covered a lot of gravel, corrugated and hard to medium packed dirt roads. About 300 kilos were those type of roads and about 50 kilos were soft sand, powdery dirt and loose rocks, the rest black top. I averaged what converts to 28.1 mpg (9.??L /100K) which for me is just fine because there were 7 of us in the truck and the A/C was on full blast all the way.

[Racer]

Thanks Aussie, when I drain the HPR out on time it is black, just doesn't seem to get dirty as quick compared to mineral oil. Engine runs/sounds smoother with HPR opposed to the mineral oil.

What if I drop a bit of Avgas from the RAAF Base, that will ensure there is no carbon build up

[sierra]

Thanks Aussie, when I drain the HPR out on time it is black, just doesn't seem to get dirty as quick compared to mineral oil. Engine runs/sounds smoother with HPR opposed to the mineral oil.

What if I drop a bit of Avgas from the RAAF Base, that will ensure there is no carbon build up

Mine was dirty after the first change but with the EGR blanked it's still looking alright after 7,000km.
Due to be changed and just starting to darken, certainly another benefit of fitting the plate.

[Aussie]

mineral v synthetic .... basically no difference when it comes to used oil colour except for overheat conditions, it is more the detergency levels

hmm ... avgas in the oil .. carefull, you may just blow the sump off !!

cheers

[RHKTriton]

I used Valvoline oil in my VW Transporter (petrol) and then the Super Diesel inmy MB Vito and happy with both. The Vito religiously oiled at 22.5km as per manual and the oil was black as, however still felt OK.

With the Triton I've decided to change to the new Nulon product and with the EGR blanked, I'd say its got plenty of reserve left at 15k service intervals.

Has anyone added any Moly additives to their oil (engine, diffs, etc) ??

Avgas in the oil? Poor bugger that spent many sleepless nights (designing piston rings) to keep combustion by-products out of the sump will be rolling in the grave!

[Cowboy Dave]

until today I've been blisfully ignorant in thinking my MN had a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF).

I say until today because last night I sent an email to Penrite asking which product they recommend for the MN since their website is out of date. I sent them the oil specs straight out of the owner's handbook thing.

When they wrote back they said the specs I gave them meant there was no DPF. I checked the workshop manual and under emission controls they only show a catalytic converter and not mention of DPF.

Now to the recommendations. Quote below from Penrite

Thank you for your enquiry.
Our website gets updated quarterly, so your model vehicle will be in the next upcoming update.

Based on the specifications you have provided (ACEA A3/B3 A3/B4 A5/B5 and API CF-4), it indicates that you do not actually have a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF).
A catalytic converter may be fitted on your exhaust.
With these specifications, HPR Diesel 5 (semi-synthetic SAE 5W-40) is our recommendation.

I have attached the HPR Diesel 5 information sheet, for your perusal.

Now here's what Valvoline had to say:

The specifications have not changed on your vehicle from 2009.
We are waiting on our Lubrication Advisor to update our Web Site.
Our Engine oil recommendation for your vehicle is;
Synpower 5W-40

The Valvoline website and the booklet at Supacheap both talk about an ML with a 2.5 diesel which had me confused a bit. The 5W-40 is quite different to what their book suggested for the ML.

[sierra]

The Valvoline website and the booklet at Supacheap both talk about an ML with a 2.5 diesel which had me confused a bit. The 5W-40 is quite different to what their book suggested for the ML.

Most countries had the 2.5 in the ML, called the L200 every where else.
I'm using Penrite HPR15 but will change to HPR5 because as Aussie said, it's the right range at 5W-40 and a better spec when you look at the details. If I could get it in WA I would use the Synforce Cruise oil.

http://www.synforce.com.au/diesel_engine_oil.html

[Cowboy Dave]

yeah I was going to go with the Synforce but I drove to my nearest TJM megastore last Saturday (50 minute drive each way) only to find it closed. Seems they'd decided not to open Saturday because of the long weekend or something.

at least I can pick up the Penrite or Valvoline at my local Supercheap (more like 10 mins each way) .

[subi_man]

drove to my nearest TJM megastore last Saturday (50 minute drive each way) only to find it closed.

that would only be 10k's in Sydney though CB?!! (sorry i could not resist, I shot to the Big Smoke and back on Thursday afternoon and the L-C tunnel/M2 was a carpark as I was trying to head back outta there)

[Cowboy Dave]

yeah something like that... and the traffic seemed to be following me so I had traffic on the way there and on the way back despite it being a Saturday. I detoured via ARB on the way home and boy was that an expensive little detour...

[liamb]

Hi all

Sorry to drag up an old topic but does anyone know how I can get Synforce oils in SA. I have asked around a few places but got no positive results. I looked on the website and there is no way to order over the net

Cheers

Bill