Oils aint Oils

[Aussie]

ah, shear strength (film strength) extremely important and widely misunderstood.

an oils shear strength is governed by a few factors but the main one is the SSI (shear stability index) of the polymers (viscosity improvers (VI) also refered to as viscosity modifiers) used in the oil when making multigrades, base oil types here also.

in the main mono grade oils have no VI in the blend, only multigrades (I do stress that this is not always the case though)

for the uninformed and as an example think of a big end/crank relationship, the only thing between them is the oil, take away that oil and we all know what happens.

now that oil depending on how it is built has a shear strength ability (the ability to resist shear under load, some call it film strength) and can be tested to find out how good it is, if the oil shears then you have bare metal to metal, not good.

there are many grades of VI available all being rated on shear strength and are given a rating known as SSI(shear strength index), the better blenders use a low SSI VI which are always more expensive than a higher VI with a higher SSI, additive manufacturers supply the tech info on the various VI products but it is the blender that choose's which to use and many make this decission on price.

VI in engine oils usually have an SSI ranging from 15 to 25 to 35 or even worse, we use only the 15 SSI polymer in engine oils but I know from info fed to me that most use 25 or even 35 and this is something that no one will ever own up to for obvious reasons.

Re Zinc levels ... the zinc is an antiwear additive and generally the more zinc the less wear but there are limits to this also, race oils generally are loaded with zinc at higher levels than normal oils and come with a warning not to be used for every day use, too much zinc can also cause some problems in normal use engines.

Zinc is also being replaced these days in certain formulations with other antiwear additives so the zinc thing does not apply accross the board so to speak.

re shining lights etc, i would love to tell all as in some circles i have a reputation of doing but i have to be carefull as you may understand, the other reason for not wanting to be brand specific is that i know our oils are the best but if i was to identify myself here then i could be guilty of doing all this just to promote our oils and that is something i do not want to happen.

by giving the info that i do, i hope to help people into make good choices, taint it with brands etc and it will be lost.

cheers

[snowman]

so aussie...what oil are you running in YOUR car?

[Aussie]

15w/40, semi synthetic CH4/sj, JASO DH1, medium ash, TBN of 11.64, made with 15 SSI VI and proud to say all Lubrizol additives, even the non synthetic part is group 2, not group 1.

[sierra]

ah, shear strength (film strength) extremely important and widely misunderstood.
VI in engine oils usually have an SSI ranging from 15 to 25 to 35 or even worse, we use only the 15 SSI polymer in engine oils but I know from info fed to me that most use 25 or even 35 and this is something that no one will ever own up to for obvious reasons.
cheers

That info isn't given in this instance and from what you say wont be for others, so we have no way of comparing these important details.


I can understand your position.
However, to promote your own products based on facts while being non brand specific for comparisons would seem to be quite healthy. Others do that in this forum. Especially healthy if we get a 10% discount for using a good product?

[sierra]

so aussie...what oil are you running in YOUR car?

Thanks Snowman.
Checking specs!!?

[Aussie]

I should correct myself, it is not proper for me to claim our product is the best as I do not know the formulations, base oil types etc that all other companies are using, I do however have a fair idea as raw material suppliers, tanker drivers etc do talk, what i can say is that ours is built right, no cutting corners etc and use the best materials available for the specs quoted, in some cases even "overbuilt".

I also know how to read into claimed specifications/ratings and what they are not saying.

performance ratings/specifications, base oil types, SSI values, additive types and percentages, blending methods etc, all that stuff is what it is all about, one thing for sure if the oil is cheap in price then it is almost certainly cheap in quality but that does not automatically mean if it is expensive it is good either.

I do hope i have not made the task of choosing harder as that can be a by product of some information that only a lot of info can cure.

cheers

[snowman]

15w/40, semi synthetic CH4/sj, JASO DH1, medium ash, TBN of 11.64, made with 15 SSI VI and proud to say all Lubrizol additives, even the non synthetic part is group 2, not group 1.

...and i can buy this from?

[Aussie]

the best I can say to snowman and others is that in my opinion you should look for the following specs...

for the 3.2 diesel buy a 15w/40 semi synthetic, medium ash (1.3% to 1.5%), Ch4/sj, JASO Dh1 with a TBN (total base No) greater than say 10 (preferably up around 11 or so) in a reputable brand, these specs will set you on the right track.

in cold climates go for a 10w/40 same specs

I have seen a pajero do 600K + on these specs without being touched apart from normal servicing and that tells me something.

all oil company product data sheets should give these specs, if they don't, ditch them as they are either trying to hide something or don't know what they are doing, simple.

don't believe the hype, go for the specs and this applies to all oil companies products, irrespective.

avoid CF diesel ratings (noah's technology and not really high performance turbo diesel as there is much better available) and particularly with nissan avoid CG4, BUY CH4 or better.

give the engine what it needs not what some salesman thinks it needs.

by following these recommendations you will end up making a good decision.

does this help, cheers

[Aussie]

just a bit on viscosities that might help ...

all engine oils are tested at 40 degC and 100 degC and the results given in CsT (centistokes), the first part of a 15w/40 means it is a 15 weight oil at 40 degC and it PERFORMS like a 40 weight oil when at 100 degC (simplified)

take a 5w/40, a 10w/40 and a 15w/40 as examples .... at the cold end the 5 is the thinnest of these but at 100 degC they are all the same viscosity and a simple graph can be applied to all in that as they get hotter they get closer to being the same but say at 80 degC the 15w/40 is still the thickest, at any temp for that matter.

check your sump temps when running if you can, most normal running will be around say 80 degC and i would seriously doubt that even hard running the temp would get above 100 degC and even if it did it would not be by much.

a thinner oil at cold start will give better cold start protection and this is desirable but if it is too thin it may not afford adequate oil pressure when idling hot, not desirable.

another task of an oil is to provide cooling to engine components and the general rule is that thicker oil does not allow heat transfer as well as the right viscosity oil for that motor so thicker oils whilst they will be thicker at or above 100 degC will not have the correct cooling effect.

the same can be said when the oil is thinner than normal it will also not allow correct heat transfer and all of this is related to oil pressure.

oil pressure is simply resistance to flow, the correct visc oil will have the correct flow rates thus the correct heat transfer, why, well if the thicker oil hangs arround too long because of less flow it will in some cases actually heat the engine as it is not getting away quick enough to be cooled correctly, if it is too thin it is going to fast to grab the heat, hence overheating as well.

this is all simplified but it is relative when playing around with viscosities, just don't go too far away from OEM recommendations on viscosity, they have done the testing in their engines, not you or me and not the oil companies.

there are no common additives used or widely available to help heat transfer in engine oils despite what any oil company hype may say, so the cooling primarily comes down to correct viscosity as being the first stop.

does this help, cheers

[CamboWambo]

The other day my wife and I realized that our 09 Triton with approx. 3700 kilometers on the clock, is a lot louder at idle than her friends 07 Hilux with 40000 kilometers on it. So we started paying more attention to other brands as well, sure enough our 2.5 liter CRD engine sounds like it's going to throw a rod compared to all other brand diesels. Do you think a synthetic oil would help reduce the noise? Or any other suggestions? The stealer here uses Tela brand 15w40 regular type oil. I checked the oil level and it's fine.

[sierra]

My 2.5 CRD sounds quieter than most other diesels, it's got 7,500km on the clock and the original oil from new.
It's getting a change of oil next week.
Noise on idle will be from combustion, injectors and fuel pump, unless the valve clearances are wrong which I doubt.
So changing the oil should have little bearing on the noise?
I'm almost fed up mentioning my experience with 2 stroke oil. Have a read on the forums to see what others have found by adding some to the diesel. With mine it's as quiet cold as it is when warmed up, big difference there and almost all of the injector noise has gone running 1/400 mixture, less than 1/2 the suggested amount. Idling in traffic it's hard to hear the engine and it's muted under load.
When another diesel pulls up next to me they usually sound like tanks and mine sounds like a petrol by comparison.

[snowman]

or the 3.2 diesel buy a 15w/40 semi synthetic, medium ash (1.3% to 1.5%), Ch4/sj, JASO Dh1 with a TBN (total base No) greater than say 10 (preferably up around 11 or so) in a reputable brand, these specs will set you on the right track.
all oil company product data sheets should give these specs, if they don't, ditch them as they are either trying to hide something or don't know what they are doing, simple.

sierra,

did you find an aussie sold oil with these specs in your research?

[sierra]

sierra,
did you find an aussie sold oil with these specs in your research?

No Snowman,

I looked up a couple but the specs were using a different base or data field type and felt like I was on a wild goose chase.

[sierra]

the best I can say to snowman and others is that in my opinion you should look for the following specs...
for the 3.2 diesel buy a 15w/40 semi synthetic, medium ash (1.3% to 1.5%), Ch4/sj, JASO Dh1 with a TBN (total base No) greater than say 10 (preferably up around 11 or so) in a reputable brand, these specs will set you on the right track.
in cold climates go for a 10w/40 same specs

Comparing Penrite HPR Diesel 15 to the above requirements.
Semi Synthetic
15W/50
Sulphated ash 1.34%
CH-4/SL{assume SL is better spec than SJ?]
TBN 10.6
JASO spec missing.

So apart from the extra 10 in 15W/50 and not showing the JASO figure this oil comes up to spec, apparently?

There's also the HPR 5 which is 5W/40 and appears to be a slightly higher spec with a TBN of 11.9 and CI-4/SL?
Although the sulphated ash % is below the 1.3 - 1.5 range at 1.23

Feeling comfortable with the 20L of HPR Diesel 15 sitting in the garage. Will feel even better when some of it is in the engine.

[Homer]

I am thinking an aussie oil company with the same name as Dick Johnsons XD Bathurst car

[sierra]

I am thinking an aussie oil company with the same name as Dick Johnsons XD Bathurst car

They don't give much info on the specs of their oil though and that's supposed to be sign of hiding things?

[snowman]

snowman slow.

[sierra]

:?

snowman slow.

http://www.carsguide.com.au/site/news-a ... k_on_track

http://www.trubluoil.com.au/

[snowman]

thanks mate - i was well familiar with the major sponsor but had no idea about the little aussie blenders. now i do.

[Homer]

They don't give much info on the specs of their oil though and that's supposed to be sign of hiding things?

That's just my best guess on the oil company we are talking to. Might be worth asking some questions on that brand's diesel engine oils to see if there is any info available.....

As Aussie says, he is not trying to sell his oil - what difference would even 50 or 100 x 5 litre bottles make to national sales. Just giving us some good oil analysis, advice and options.

[Steve-o]

for the 3.2 diesel buy a 15w/40 semi synthetic, medium ash (1.3% to 1.5%), Ch4/sj, JASO Dh1 with a TBN (total base No) greater than say 10 (preferably up around 11 or so) in a reputable brand, these specs will set you on the right track.
in cold climates go for a 10w/40 same specs

"

This one comes close
Pulled from the Nulon website:
15W-40 High Protection Diesel Formula Engine Oil


Typical Characteristics
SAE Viscosity Grade 15W-40
KV @ 100°C (cSt) 15.00
KV @ 40°C (cSt) 109.0
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 143
Density @ 15°C Kg/l 0.8834
Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 1.35
Total Base #, mg KOH/g, ASTM D 2896 10.00
Pour Point, °C, ASTM D 97 -24
Flash Point, °C, ASTM D 92 225



Approvals and Specifications
American Petroleum Institute : API CI-4/CH-4/CG-4/CF-4/SL
European : ACEA E7-04, E2-96 issue 5, A2-96 issue 3
Society of Automotive Engineers : SAE 15W-40

http://www.nulon.com.au/products/15W-40 ... ngine_Oil/

[sierra]

This one comes close
Pulled from the Nulon website:
15W-40 High Protection Diesel Formula Engine Oil
http://www.nulon.com.au/products/15W-40 ... ngine_Oil/

Sounds good.
Not a semi synthetic though and the base number just scraped in.

[snowman]

that's what i got in my shed woohoo

bought it from SuperCheap when on special and i swear when i put it in on my 7500klm oil change my economy got slightly better.

yes not a semi-syn but i have pretty much decided to change oils every 5k now (particularly if i get MRT tune) so it is good enough for me....... and about $20 cheaper than a semi-syn oil change.

[sierra]

Much lower viscosity at 40c than the HPR 15, 109 against 153 has to be a plus for start ups for the Nulon.
Drops off to 15 at 100c where the Penrite still has 19.5 on a scale where I would assume piss is about 1 but in reality rarely goes over 80c anyway.
I'm sure they're both up to the task and way better than the dealer magnaslop but so far I like the sound of the HPR 5 best.

Which one's next?

[Aussie]

i should not say this but i would go for nulon over true blue any day, i am not connected to nulon in any way (in fact they are opposition) so "read my lips"

a base No of 10 is fine if you are not doing extended drain