4wd26 2008 ML auto- now with 4.6 gears and rear disc brakes

Want to show off what you've done to your rig? or have a custom project to show? Post it up here!

Re: 4wd26 2008 ML auto- now with 4.6 gears and rear disc bra

Postby triton_guru on Wed Dec 31, 2014 2:39 pm

My opinion is formed based on my experience actually, i work with massive winders in hoisting and yes tge smaller winder uses disc but our big winder uses drums for the reason it works better than a disc. Now if you would like to argue your point with the engineer who designed and built the winder go ahead but im pretty sure a multimillion dollar winder didnt use drums because it was cheaper lol, now ive tried changing the subject a few times referring to the diff gears but if anyone else would like to state anything else on the disc and drum topic make a new thread. Sorry again 26 hopefully this will be the last of it haha
User avatar
triton_guru
 
Posts: 865
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:49 pm


 

Re: 4wd26 2008 ML auto- now with 4.6 gears and rear disc bra

Postby Calblitzen on Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:48 pm

Great thread 26, have read it all from start to finish. Like the idea of the rear discs, had them standard on my old GQ and it would pull up well. Also great for stopping after a river crossing. Very interested in the diff swap as it would be much better in low range. Like you I have a very steep driveway and have at times required to use low range to get up. It's a must for reversing the camper up. As I have a newer model and am unable to do the 2wd low range mod, is another reason I like the diff ratio swap.
No matter what life throws at you, SMILE.

Better to be looking at it, than looking for it.
User avatar
Calblitzen
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:15 pm
Location: Sydney (south)

Re: 4wd26 2008 ML auto- now with 4.6 gears and rear disc bra

Postby paddstar69 on Wed Dec 31, 2014 4:28 pm

great thread 26, good to see you thinking outside the box and customising to your own needs.
my 2cents fence sitting, only adding a technical side
drum brakes, due to the leading shoe wedging action require less force applied to the brake pedal to achieve equal braking force compared to a disc brake without booster. maybe why in the earlier days we had drum brakes all round and no brake booster. try stopping a 4 wheel disc vehicle with the engine off bloody hard compared to a 4 wheel drum no booster.
modern day 4 wheel discs with booster are a nicer option for braking.TECHNOLOGY its a great innovation.
The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
User avatar
paddstar69
Platinum Subscriber
 
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:00 pm
Location: Oak Flats NSW

Re: 4wd26 2008 ML auto- now with 4.6 gears and rear disc bra

Postby RHKTriton on Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:02 pm

Disc brakes chief advantages over drum are heat disapation, self adjusting with wear, more economical servicing and possibly provide less unsprung weight in some rigs.

They suck as parking brakes, hence common use of 'drum in hat' configurations.

Drums have much more friction area - about four times that of disc pads, however keeping adjusted is more of a problem and the drum is a natural dirt trap.
Don't let the b'strds get you down!!
RHKTriton
Platinum Subscriber
 
Posts: 4309
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:05 pm
Location: La trobe Valley - Gippsland

Re: 4wd26 2008 ML auto- now with 4.6 gears and rear disc bra

Postby NowForThe5th on Wed Dec 31, 2014 7:29 pm

Ahhh. Finally!

I'd been staying out of this, quite intentionally waiting to see how long it would take. :twisted:

So, there we have it folks:

  • Drums are cheaper than discs
  • Drums are more efficient than discs with much greater friction area
  • Drums dissipate heat poorly therefore have greater risk of failure with multiple applications or stopping from high speeds
  • Discs dissipate heat more efficiently
  • Drums need less energy/pressure to operate and with a leading shoe design, are self energising to a degree
  • Drums are more prone to locking up (because of self energising nature, above)
  • Discs are cheaper to service/maintain
  • Drums will resist a shower of water better but once wet inside will likely fail until dried out
  • Discs are self adjusting, therefore provide safer, more consistent braking
  • Discs have (generally) less weight for stopping power so impact less on unsprung weight and ride comfort
  • The need to maintain high pressures in a disc system makes them unsuitable for use as parking brakes
  • There are certain financial advantages for drum braked, commercial classified vehicles in some jurisdictions

So, if you have a heavy load to stop from a slower speed, then drums are the go, as they are for a light load from more speed or just to hold something in place. But, if you're trying to stop something from high speed, where the heat generation is going to be very high, or there will be multiple brake applications without enough time for drums to cool, then discs are the better choice.

It also explains guru's assertions about drums being better because they were used on bigger winders while discs are used on the smaller (probably higher speed) ones.

The moves on heavy vehicles and trains to discs have more to do with hydraulics and the ability to apply sufficient pressures and, of course, upscaling technology from cars successfully.

Every time I had the drums serviced or linings adjusted on my Triton the brakes were outstanding....for about a week. The rest of the time I wished that I could have discs, like 26 now has. :mrgreen:
Chris

If work is so terrific, why do they have to pay us to do it?
User avatar
NowForThe5th
Moderator
 
Posts: 8642
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 2:00 pm
Location: Holt, ACT

Re: 4wd26 2008 ML auto- now with 4.6 gears and rear disc bra

Postby L200Shogun on Wed Dec 31, 2014 7:43 pm

Just like Kevin Bartlett wanted Discs at Bathurst. He had massive drums that overheated and didn't work.
User avatar
L200Shogun
 
Posts: 799
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:48 am
Location: Perth WA

Re: 4wd26 2008 ML auto- now with 4.6 gears and rear disc bra

Postby RHKTriton on Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:55 am

......and when vehicles eventually become fully electrified, all the above will become irrelevant.

We'll be discussing how big a heat sink can be attached to the wheel motor to drive it harder for four wheelin, how deep can it be submerged and where to fit the extra long range batteries.
Don't let the b'strds get you down!!
RHKTriton
Platinum Subscriber
 
Posts: 4309
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:05 pm
Location: La trobe Valley - Gippsland

Re: 4wd26 2008 ML auto- now with 4.6 gears and rear disc bra

Postby motoz on Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:28 am

Nice hijack of a good build thread. Well done guys !!!
One day your life will flash before your eyes. Will it be a good show ???
User avatar
motoz
Platinum Subscriber
 
Posts: 3049
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:23 pm
Location: Adelaide Hills

Re: 4wd26 2008 ML auto- now with 4.6 gears and rear disc bra

Postby 4wd26 on Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:38 am

Calblitzen wrote:Great thread 26, have read it all from start to finish. Like the idea of the rear discs, had them standard on my old GQ and it would pull up well. Also great for stopping after a river crossing. Very interested in the diff swap as it would be much better in low range. Like you I have a very steep driveway and have at times required to use low range to get up. It's a must for reversing the camper up. As I have a newer model and am unable to do the 2wd low range mod, is another reason I like the diff ratio swap.


I have a full set of front and rear 4.1 crown and pinions (from my vehicle) pre 4.6 upgrade
also have a LSD carrier and a larger set of axles, so basically everything that Fraz needed to do his 4.1 gear upgrade to his MN available

MN owners will need to source the carrier and axles in order to use the gears that I did, as as far as I have been able to determine these gears will not fit the standard carrier in the MN.

the carrier could also be sourced from ARB in the form of a airlocker ;) , but will still need the axles to match the splines and diameter of the carrier.
Getting Out There
Sucks to be you, glad I bought a 3.2 :o
User avatar
4wd26
Moderator
 
Posts: 8278
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: Bayside Bundy and Monto

Re: 4wd26 2008 ML auto- now with 4.6 gears and rear disc bra

Postby Calblitzen on Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:37 pm

Maybe interested 26. However I also like the rear disc option.
No matter what life throws at you, SMILE.

Better to be looking at it, than looking for it.
User avatar
Calblitzen
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:15 pm
Location: Sydney (south)

Re: 4wd26 2008 ML auto- now with 4.6 gears and rear disc bra

Postby Cowboy Dave on Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:58 pm

Wouldn't there be two different carriers for the MN, depending on whether you have the 9 or 9.5 inch diff?
The Hitchhiker's guide to the the Triton universe and NTN.

A how to on finding your own way - search me.

The two threads I wish people would use more: thing 1 and thing 2.
User avatar
Cowboy Dave
Moderator
 
Posts: 18098
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:46 am
Location: Sydney

Re: 4wd26 2008 ML auto- now with 4.6 gears and rear disc bra

Postby 4wd26 on Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:03 am

Not too sure CD in regard to the MN
I have some thoughts, but at this stage happy to state knowns

And that is using a carrier from a ML (9.5" rear diff) can be retrofitted into a MN diff, but most of the internals from the ML must also be used

Tritonwreckers may do some trials on the mn in the future (or are already underway) but I'm not sure about what they are doing?
Getting Out There
Sucks to be you, glad I bought a 3.2 :o
User avatar
4wd26
Moderator
 
Posts: 8278
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: Bayside Bundy and Monto

Re: 4wd26 2008 ML auto- winch fitted

Postby 4wd26 on Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:50 am

hvac guy wrote:Did they use the brake bias valve as well


we interrupt your normal scheduled program for some technical information......

from the sales sheet

ABS WITH EBD
Triton 4WD’s 4-sensor, 4-channel, Anti-lock Braking System
(ABS) delivers lock-free braking power and control. Even
in emergency braking conditions on slippery or uneven
roads you’ll be able to steer safely around obstacles without
losing traction.

Electronic Brakeforce Distribution (EBD) actively monitors
different wheel speeds and evenly distributes brake pressure
across the front and rear wheels depending on vehicle load.
Under heavier loads, EBD provides shorter braking distances
while enhancing overall control. ABS is available as standard
on GLX-R and GLS and optional on GLX models.


BRAKES
Four wheel power assisted brakes
Front Ventilated discs, single piston calipers
Rear Drums, leading and trailing shoes with Load Sensing Proportioning Valve
ABS with EBD available on all models (When fitted, ABS with EBD replaces Load Sensing Proportioning Valve)


this is the technical reason why nothing was required to be changed, as the ABS adjusts to the braking.

May be different if your triton does not have ABS- but reality is there are not that many models out there without ABS ;)

not too sure how the engineer would feel with a MN with stability control and the rest of the electronics, but again reality says that while modification is taking place, the ECU should be able to control the inputs and outputs (wheel speeds) and adjust as per normal. It is just the wording in ANCAP that might bother some.
Getting Out There
Sucks to be you, glad I bought a 3.2 :o
User avatar
4wd26
Moderator
 
Posts: 8278
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: Bayside Bundy and Monto

Re: 4wd26 2008 ML auto- now with 4.6 gears and rear disc bra

Postby triton_guru on Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:46 am

26 what was the highest gear ratio available for the triton? Was it 4.6 or is there another?
User avatar
triton_guru
 
Posts: 865
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:49 pm

Re: 4wd26 2008 ML auto- now with 4.6 gears and rear disc bra

Postby 4wd26 on Fri Jan 02, 2015 10:57 am

Ml or MN triton highest ratio was 4.3 (petrol V6 triton ML)

older tritons I believe had 4.6 in the petrol? but I'm not sure
Getting Out There
Sucks to be you, glad I bought a 3.2 :o
User avatar
4wd26
Moderator
 
Posts: 8278
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: Bayside Bundy and Monto

Re: 4wd26 2008 ML auto- now with 4.6 gears and rear disc bra

Postby triton_guru on Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:31 pm

Is that the diff gears you used?
User avatar
triton_guru
 
Posts: 865
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:49 pm

Re: 4wd26 2008 ML auto- now with 4.6 gears and rear disc bra

Postby Cowboy Dave on Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:32 pm

Mate I don't think he wants to give the whole game away as he was doing this so tritonwreckers could maybe put together a kit to sell.
The Hitchhiker's guide to the the Triton universe and NTN.

A how to on finding your own way - search me.

The two threads I wish people would use more: thing 1 and thing 2.
User avatar
Cowboy Dave
Moderator
 
Posts: 18098
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:46 am
Location: Sydney

Re: 4wd26 2008 ML auto- now with 4.6 gears and rear disc bra

Postby triton_guru on Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:51 pm

All good got a pm with some info
User avatar
triton_guru
 
Posts: 865
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:49 pm

Re: 4wd26 2008 ML auto- now with 4.6 gears and rear disc bra

Postby 4wd26 on Fri Jan 02, 2015 1:35 pm

I have been vauge for a couple of reasons.

the main one is there are just too many variables in the triton driveline between ML and MN diffs to say something will work.

Hell, even ARB ask for a vin number before ordering the rear carrier as Mitsubishi swap and change.

http://www.newtriton.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=17691

http://www.newtriton.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=6063

the information is around on our forum, but YOU guys that want to follow with this need to confirm that stuff fits your vehicle.

Note.
I had access to 2 different triton diffs and 2 pajero rear diffs matched with fronts (thanks to tritonwreckers), and still needed to source another front pajero diff. So it is not for the faint hearted and costs.........and that was required with my knowledge and tritonwreckers experience

I believe tritonwreckers is putting together a kit for the ML (from the knowledge gained from my build) they think they have ironed out all the variables- note for a ML

For a MN, at this stage I can only confirm what has previously been done- fraz. That is not to say it cannot be done, but note what I have said before about the carriers and fraz build thread.

and for a MN (9" diff) upgrading the axles etc, I'm unsure how much room remains inside to allow bigger gears, and would get worse with lockers etc as lines run over the crown wheel- just for some extra :shock: :shock: BUT we know 4.1 and LSD fits ;)
Getting Out There
Sucks to be you, glad I bought a 3.2 :o
User avatar
4wd26
Moderator
 
Posts: 8278
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: Bayside Bundy and Monto

Re: 4wd26 2008 ML auto- now with 4.6 gears and rear disc bra

Postby 4wd26 on Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:02 pm

Loving my rear discs
Just hose and the mud is gone
Click to view larger picture
Makes it a lot quicker cleaning up after a mud run, even if that wasn't the intention
Getting Out There
Sucks to be you, glad I bought a 3.2 :o
User avatar
4wd26
Moderator
 
Posts: 8278
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: Bayside Bundy and Monto

Re: 4wd26 2008 ML auto- now with 4.6 gears and rear disc bra

Postby trouble on Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:12 pm

Hey 26 how does it actually stop now, compared to the drums????
I Love The Mods!
Ban everyone!
User avatar
trouble
 
Posts: 5312
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:59 pm
Location: Gilgandra, NSW

Re: 4wd26 2008 ML auto- now with 4.6 gears and rear disc bra

Postby Lunny on Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:30 pm

with brake pads and calipers.... pushing the brake pedal too... :D :D :D :D :D :D
Lunny
User avatar
Lunny
 
Posts: 1708
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:39 pm
Location: North Brisbane, QLD

Re: 4wd26 2008 ML auto- now with 4.6 gears and rear disc bra

Postby trouble on Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:07 pm

I knew their would one!!!
There always is!!
And when Emu Twins see this they will just add to the stupidity!
I Love The Mods!
Ban everyone!
User avatar
trouble
 
Posts: 5312
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:59 pm
Location: Gilgandra, NSW

Re: 4wd26 2008 ML auto- now with 4.6 gears and rear disc bra

Postby har05l on Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:59 pm

Lunny wrote:with brake pads and calipers.... pushing the brake pedal too... :D :D :D :D :D :D


And discs also Lunny ;)

You see trouble when the brake pedal is depressed this forces the pads to touch the discs, hence the car will stop, it's not rocket science mate ;)

Alco and I will explain it in further detail around the next camp fire :lol:


Very 8-) 26
[censored]
User avatar
har05l
Platinum Subscriber
 
Posts: 5574
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:01 pm
Location: Cambridge Park

Re: 4wd26 2008 ML auto- now with 4.6 gears and rear disc bra

Postby variflex on Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:41 am

trouble wrote:And when Emu Twins see this

The "Emu twins" is there a story behind that branding?
User avatar
variflex
 
Posts: 1374
Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 9:48 pm
Location: Penrith

PreviousNext

Return to Member Build Ups

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests