VMN Body lift for Triton - Let's do it

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VMN Body lift for Triton - Let's do it

Postby VMN on Wed May 29, 2013 9:25 pm

Hi guys. Yeh I know I am a very silent supporter of your forum and a couple of the QLD members have tracked me down and put the screws on about a body lift kit for your trucks. Let me say they are very persistent! One of them came round last night and I was able to have a bit of a look but it was raining and pretty dark but it was the first time I had gone over a Triton with a view to do a body lift.

I appreciate not many guys will know me but I have had a Hilux I bought new when nobody knew much about them back in 2007 and in 2009 I came up with a really good idea to extend the steering when doing a body lift to the Hilux and hence VMN was born. I have met a few of you guys over the years. In recent times I have not been as active on the New Hiux forum but I have sold hundreds of the VMN body lift kits to very happy New Hilux members, got approvals from Queensland Transport that nobody else bothered to get and fine tuned fitting instructions after heaps of user feedback. VMN started with heaps of help fro the New Hilux members by way of presales to cover the initial start up costs. Today, the Hilux kit includes a number of laser cut, powder coated parts and body lift blocks and includes all of the parts you need to be confident that at the end of the day your car is driveable AND 2" higher!

So in this thread, let's ignore all of the legal mumbo jumbo, ADR's, NCOP's and QCOP's any any other regulations that may apply and focus on if it can be done or not.

Well in answer to this question, Yes, it is doable but it is a bigger job than on a Hilux so here's the plan.

1. Call on you guys to help out by answering some questions so we know what components are needed

2. Revisit the legalities in Queensland as they have changed.

3. Get a couple of keen as mustard members who want to fit a body lift and are prepared to get their hands dirty around to my place and we will give it a go. I am not a mechanic so the official stance is I will be giving those guys a hand.

4. Get into it and get a kit fitted to one brave soul's truck! This may entail making up some brackets etc or turning up some parts on the day and runs the risk of being stranded if we don't sort it all out within a weekend. Starting on a Friday might be a good idea but even then there is a risk as if we get a bolt size wrong it is likley they will be special order items and take a day or so to come in anyway!

5. Invite you guys to record our interest in a 50mm body lift kit and if you are prepared to enter in a group buy up front to help cover some of the R&D and inevitable engineeering costs. As a guide, the Hilux Diesel kit is $625 and I'd like to keep it at around the same price (noting there will be a $10 price rise soon as one components has a pending price increase).

We have two guys keen (frederik77 and tuf909) and we don't want too many here on the day as I don't have that much room here but there may be room for another one, maybe two maximum as a couple of helpers could be handy particularly if we need to go and find something at the last minute.

So here endeth the first post. I will add a second post that outlines a list of questions and from there it is over to you guys to help me learn about your truck, so feel free post up expressions of interest and teach me how to get this thing a bit higher off the ground!

Oh and if you want to talk things through if you follow the link to my web site in my signature and call my mobile that is shown on the contact me site here http://www.vehiclemods.net.au/contact-us/default-form

Rod
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Re: VMN Body lift for Triton - Let's do it

Postby VMN on Wed May 29, 2013 9:28 pm

As promised, here are some notes from a first look

Triton Body lift
1. Steering extension required, VMN Hilux one should fit, needs an extension bracket at steering knuckle. Need to check if the splines are the same as the Hilux. They appear to be.
2. Radiator VMN Hilux drop brackets will work to re-centre the radiator on the fan
3. Air conditioning pipework, need to be released from the body and reattached, additional bracketry may be required
4. Brake lines several brake lines will need to be disconnected, coils teased out to gain the length. Brakes will need to be bled after fitting.
5. Heater hoses etc. some may need extending (eg. replace with new longer hoses) what diameter are these hoses?
6. Brake lines to front brakes are attached to body, might need releasing and reattaching at a lower point.
7. Air inlet extension required. VMN 63mm dia aluminium tube might work but need to check. VMN Hilux hose clamps may need to be a larger size as on the triton, they will need to be attached on the outside of corrugations in hose.
8. Body mounts M10 bolts used. Are they bolts or studs? Need to know length to end of thread. Maximum bolt length of 150mm for M10 bolts could be an issue. This can be resolved by using M12 bolts but holes in the floor pan will need enlarging. VMN standard dia blocks (60mm and 76mm) should work.
9. Captive body mount. There is a bolt that passes through a round hole in the chassis. This bolt/stud needs an extension so it stays within the chassis hole. Are they bolts or stud? If bolt, needs to be a 50mm long steel tube. If stud, need hollow bolt with internal thread. Hard to machine required steel. How long are they to end of thread?
10. Tub appears to be held on by 4 domed M10 bolts from inside the tub. Someone without a tub liner needs to remove and measure to end of thread. Thread will probably be metric fine, need to confirm thread pitch.
11. Tub may need to be removed to allow body to be lifted. Tub on first car must be empty.
12. Override bracket in wheel arch. One of the angled brackets visible under the wheel arch has a rubber pad. This will need a spacer under it. The VMN Hilux part should work but will need to be mounted offcentre as bracket is angled. The other (front) angled bracket is threaded to accept mounting bolt in tub and therefore should have a flat top.
13. Tub blocks. Should be straight forward. VMN 60mm blocks should work.
14. Fuel filler, may need extending. First car need a full tank of fuel just in case.
15. Need instructions on how to pull the console out. Someone should know how to do this.
16. Manual gear lever should be OK, assume auto is cable shift and therefore should not need modification.
17. Transfer case lever. Some minor trimming of floor pan expected to be required as per Hilux

If ou can help answer an part of this or are prepared to dismantle a bit of your truck and remove and measure a bolt or two, please chip in.
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Re: VMN Body lift for Triton - Let's do it

Postby killa on Thu May 30, 2013 3:47 am

The Triton and Challenger already get some large rubber underneath without rubbing. If the list above is required for a 50mm BL and there is no real gain in clearance would a smaller 25mm BL be a better option? I know some guys just want their rig to look HUGE but 25mm could give you a modest lift and save some hassles in the long run.
My 2c.
Cheers,

Cal
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Re: VMN Body lift for Triton - Let's do it

Postby motoz on Thu May 30, 2013 4:59 am

A MN body lift has already been done and documented on this forum.

Can a 50mm lift be engineered on a MN as there fitted with ASC?
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Re: VMN Body lift for Triton - Let's do it

Postby Tom B on Thu May 30, 2013 5:12 am

Mate I already have a 50mm body lift fitted and engineered in an ML single cab, I'm in Brisbane so if your close your welcome to run your eyes over it otherwise I'd be happy to answer any questions

Cheers
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Re: VMN Body lift for Triton - Let's do it

Postby macca002 on Thu May 30, 2013 6:37 am

If VMN put together a bodylift, will these blocks be the same diameter as the body mounts?
I have run bodylifts in the past, and the ones picked up off shelf have all been a narrow block (approx 2 inch). This causes body flex and I have seen a block punch through the underside of the floor as a result of extra strain on a smaller load bearing area.

Wider blocks around 3" would help eliminate this problem - as it would disperse the load better on the mounting points. There would also be less flex in these areas.
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Re: VMN Body lift for Triton - Let's do it

Postby VMN on Thu May 30, 2013 9:03 am

macca002 wrote:If VMN put together a bodylift, will these blocks be the same diameter as the body mounts?
I have run bodylifts in the past, and the ones picked up off shelf have all been a narrow block (approx 2 inch). This causes body flex and I have seen a block punch through the underside of the floor as a result of extra strain on a smaller load bearing area.

Wider blocks around 3" would help eliminate this problem - as it would disperse the load better on the mounting points. There would also be less flex in these areas.


Macca, this is a very important point and I shudder when I have people chasing me for a steering extension who have bought 50mm dia blocks off ebay. I can assure you that we will get this design point right. With the Hilux we started with the specs for the body mounts from Toyota. This worked for one of the mounts but I did not like the look of the front blocks when it was installed and went up a size on the first kit I did. So for the Hilux, we use 60mm and 76mm dia material (which is hard to source so sometimes it is 80mm instead). from my first glance, I thought the 76mm (3") would be a good match.

On the same subject, it is hard (maybe impossible?) to source M10 bolts longer than 150mm long. On the Hilux we use 190mm and 200mm M12 bolts so the Triton floor pan may need to be drilled out. I've got a new bolt supplier now who has a much bigger range, I have to check with him to see what he has in M10's.

Finally, while we are talking about blocks, we use black High Density Polyethylene (HDPE) which is rated for the purpose due to the high compressive strength, does not require crush tubes and will not cause galvanic corrosion between dissimilar metals as would occur if a bolt is passing though aluminium. In addition, it does not squeak, is cheaper than ally, heaps faster to machine and a lot lighter when it comes to postage. For South Australian residents where the Transport department is not up with modern materials, we offer an aluminium block upgrade to ensure compliance in that state.

Tom B wrote:Mate I already have a 50mm body lift fitted and engineered in an ML single cab, I'm in Brisbane so if your close your welcome to run your eyes over it otherwise I'd be happy to answer any questions

Cheers


Tom, thanks for the offer, I will contact you when I get a bit better organised. I'd be interested to know who your engineer was.

motoz wrote:Can a 50mm lift be engineered on a MN as there fitted with ASC?


As I said in the initial post, lets not worry about the engineering for now but none of the current QLD regs for bodylifts refer to ASC but no doubt it could be buried in an ADR somewhere. we need to know what is required before we can have meaningful discussions about the engineering.

killa wrote:The Triton and Challenger already get some large rubber underneath without rubbing. If the list above is required for a 50mm BL and there is no real gain in clearance would a smaller 25mm BL be a better option? I know some guys just want their rig to look HUGE but 25mm could give you a modest lift and save some hassles in the long run.
My 2c.


Killa, this is a valid point as well which I discussed with Frederik when he first came round. You guys have much bigger wheel arches than we Hilux drivers do!

In my experience with the Hilux, you need to standardise on the one size or there are too many manufacturing variants to achieve economic production of components. As it is, we sell 4 different variations of Hilux kits to cover trays, tubs and petrol/diesel engines. The 2" lift suits available materials and components, lower lifts make it more difficult as the correct size material is not available.

Thanks for the support and questions guys! Together with a couple of PM's, I have had some great offers of help to get this kit off the ground without taking a vehicle off the road.
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Re: VMN Body lift for Triton - Let's do it

Postby VMN on Thu May 30, 2013 9:16 am

VMN wrote:I've got a new bolt supplier now who has a much bigger range, I have to check with him to see what he has in M10's.


Hmm, in the past I ask about long M10's and no one has them and my new suppliers has them up to 300mm long sitting on the shelf. So that is one problem solved :)
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Re: VMN Body lift for Triton - Let's do it

Postby Thommo3337 on Thu May 30, 2013 12:20 pm

Great stuff am sure their will be plenty of interested people
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Re: VMN Body lift for Triton - Let's do it

Postby Chill on Thu May 30, 2013 2:41 pm

Not sure how this works but if you have a bull bar on your car, will there be a big gap between the front bumper bar where it has been cut and the bull bar or will there be enough adjustment to close the gap. Hope you understand what I mean ;)
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Re: VMN Body lift for Triton - Let's do it

Postby killa on Thu May 30, 2013 2:47 pm

Chill wrote:Not sure how this works but if you have a bull bar on your car, will there be a big gap between the front bumper bar where it has been cut and the bull bar or will there be enough adjustment to close the gap. Hope you understand what I mean ;)

On the Triton/Challenger the Bullbar is mounted to the chassis so you will have to modify the mounts or put up with the gap.
Cheers,

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Re: VMN Body lift for Triton - Let's do it

Postby Tritonwreckers on Thu May 30, 2013 3:17 pm

I can offer the triton wreck up so that you can develop at a controlled pace and no ones vehicle is off the road. you have my pm
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Re: VMN Body lift for Triton - Let's do it

Postby VMN on Thu May 30, 2013 4:49 pm

killa wrote:
Chill wrote:Not sure how this works but if you have a bull bar on your car, will there be a big gap between the front bumper bar where it has been cut and the bull bar or will there be enough adjustment to close the gap. Hope you understand what I mean ;)

On the Triton/Challenger the Bullbar is mounted to the chassis so you will have to modify the mounts or put up with the gap.


The bullbar really needs to be lifted as there is a good chance that the top hoops will obscure your headlights which you can get pinged for. Certainly for the ARB bull bar this modification is well understood. If the Triton bar is the same as the Hilux, it is comprised of two parts. The bar itself and the chassis mounts behind it. The modification is to cut off the crush can mounts and relocate them 50mm higher, adding some appropriate bracing. QT have never had an issue with doing this. I recall one client lost interest in offroad stuff after he acquired a short girlfriend. He removed the VMN body lift kit and was able to purchase a new mount from ARB for $170 or so. :o

Our kit does not address bull are or the need to lift sliders etc. The factory side steps are not an issue as they are mounted to the body.

VMN does not address fabrication services or components to fix bar work as there are too many variables. I will say like the Hilux, the factory bumper is not attached to the chassis so it should just go back on.

Tritonwreckers wrote:I can offer the triton wreck up so that you can develop at a controlled pace and no ones vehicle is off the road. you have my pm
.

That's a great offer, I will send you a PM.
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Re: VMN Body lift for Triton - Let's do it

Postby har05l on Thu May 30, 2013 5:58 pm

VMN wrote:
Our kit does not address bull are or the need to lift sliders etc. The factory side steps are not an issue as they are mounted to the body.

VMN does not address fabrication services or components to fix bar work as there are too many variables. I will say like the Hilux, the factory bumper is not attached to the chassis so it should just go back on.


I'm almost 100% certain that on the triton the side steps are chassis mounted so would need modifying also :roll:

Don't get me wrong and good on you for putting in the hard yards to get this underway but for the cost of what this will be many triton owners will find it hard to justify.

I know what is involved as I did one many years ago to a 4runner but in comparison the triton would be painful to do

Lets hope you get some support and good luck with it all ;)
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Re: VMN Body lift for Triton - Let's do it

Postby Cowboy Dave on Thu May 30, 2013 6:04 pm

My factory steps were body mounted. Sliders on chassis though.
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Re: VMN Body lift for Triton - Let's do it

Postby Tritonwreckers on Thu May 30, 2013 6:06 pm

Factory side steps on the triton are mounted to the body, problem would arise with sliders front and rear bars
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Re: VMN Body lift for Triton - Let's do it

Postby har05l on Thu May 30, 2013 6:08 pm

Well thank you for the correction :oops: , back to my beer :roll:
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Re: VMN Body lift for Triton - Let's do it

Postby fridgie on Thu May 30, 2013 6:33 pm

har05l wrote:Well thank you for the correction :oops: , back to my beer :roll:

Get that up ya! :lol: :lol: :twisted:
I'm not so good with the advice :oops: ... Can I interest you in a sarcastic comment??? :twisted:



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Re: VMN Body lift for Triton - Let's do it

Postby Crash486 on Fri May 31, 2013 5:34 pm

How much different is the challenger from the triton? Especially since there is already a lift kit for it http://www.vehiclemods.net.au/shop/vmn- ... y-lift-kit
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Re: VMN Body lift for Triton - Let's do it

Postby mickkk on Fri May 31, 2013 6:25 pm

One has a boot and one has a tail gate. :D :D :D :D
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Re: VMN Body lift for Triton - Let's do it

Postby VMN on Fri May 31, 2013 8:02 pm

Crash486 wrote:How much different is the challenger from the triton? Especially since there is already a lift kit for it http://www.vehiclemods.net.au/shop/vmn- ... y-lift-kit


What I sell for the Challenger is just a few blocks and some bolts. The main difference is the bottom of the radiator sits in a cradle on the bodywork so you can't drop the radiator so have to cut the bottom off the shroud. From what I saw, the VMN radiator drop brackets will fix the Triton Radiator. See http://www.vehiclemods.net.au/shop/vmn-body-lift-kits/vmn-hilux-150/vigo-body-lift-kits/radiator-drop-brackets

These are laser cut, countersunk, threaded and powder coated so basically look like a factory part when fitted. They do move the radiator back 8mm but this should not be an issue.
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Re: VMN Body lift for Triton - Let's do it

Postby killa on Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:56 am

VMN wrote:
Crash486 wrote:How much different is the challenger from the triton? Especially since there is already a lift kit for it http://www.vehiclemods.net.au/shop/vmn- ... y-lift-kit


What I sell for the Challenger is just a few blocks and some bolts. The main difference is the bottom of the radiator sits in a cradle on the bodywork so you can't drop the radiator so have to cut the bottom off the shroud. From what I saw, the VMN radiator drop brackets will fix the Triton Radiator. See http://www.vehiclemods.net.au/shop/vmn-body-lift-kits/vmn-hilux-150/vigo-body-lift-kits/radiator-drop-brackets

These are laser cut, countersunk, threaded and powder coated so basically look like a factory part when fitted. They do move the radiator back 8mm but this should not be an issue.

Might need to re-check that with the current model Challenger.
The pic on your page is of a current 2009+ PB Challenger but all of the pics in the instructions are of the earlier 1999 - 2006 PA Challenger/Pajero Sport.
Cheers,

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Re: VMN Body lift for Triton - Let's do it

Postby VMN on Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:59 am

killa wrote:
VMN wrote:
Crash486 wrote:How much different is the challenger from the triton? Especially since there is already a lift kit for it http://www.vehiclemods.net.au/shop/vmn- ... y-lift-kit


What I sell for the Challenger is just a few blocks and some bolts. The main difference is the bottom of the radiator sits in a cradle on the bodywork so you can't drop the radiator so have to cut the bottom off the shroud. From what I saw, the VMN radiator drop brackets will fix the Triton Radiator. See http://www.vehiclemods.net.au/shop/vmn-body-lift-kits/vmn-hilux-150/vigo-body-lift-kits/radiator-drop-brackets

These are laser cut, countersunk, threaded and powder coated so basically look like a factory part when fitted. They do move the radiator back 8mm but this should not be an issue.

Might need to re-check that with the current model Challenger.
The pic on your page is of a current 2009+ PB Challenger but all of the pics in the instructions are of the earlier 1999 - 2006 PA Challenger/Pajero Sport.


Yeh, I know, shows how much I know about Mitsubishi's! :o I chose the wrong photo.
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Re: VMN Body lift for Triton - Let's do it

Postby VMN on Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:29 pm

Tritonwreckers wrote:I can offer the triton wreck up so that you can develop at a controlled pace and no ones vehicle is off the road. you have my pm


Well it has been about a month since I started this thread and I have down a bit of research and made up a few bits and pieces. It has just been a very busy time for me and it has been hard to find the time. But the good news is I am off to TritonWreckers in the morning to work through this in a bit more detail on his wreck.

I am taking a few bits and pieces including a floor jack, lift blocks, bolts and the like and some bits from the Hilux that I think will be useful after spending today stuffing around on my lathe so hopefully we will make some progress.

I think now that a steering extension is not required but a bracket to move the steering shaft joint down probably is so I am hoping to be able to get this component laser cut and powder coated to make it nice and easy.

I know there are some kits available on eBay for the Triton that some of you have fitted but I was not very happy with the specs and the bits they leave out, so hopefully we can do a decent job of this.
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Re: VMN Body lift for Triton - Let's do it

Postby VMN on Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:17 pm

Finally, I have something to show you.
Click to view larger picture

From the back.

6 x 76mm blocks for body
6 x 60mm blocks for tub
2 x Tub overide blocks
Body bolt kit including 2 x tubular spacers
Steering shaft joint relocation kit (prototype)
Tub bolt kit

So in a bit more detail.

Tub lift components

Click to view larger picture

Body Lift components

Click to view larger picture

Steering shaft joint relocation kit (prototype)

Click to view larger picture

Where to from here?

Frederick is going to fit this up and the steering bracket my need some tweaking. Once that is done I will get some lasercut and powder coated. The tubular spacers in this prototype kit have been turned up on a lathe from a solid piece of steel. I have tracked down some seamless steel tube that will make it easier to manufacture but it is a special order item that will take a couple of weeks or so to get in.

Pricing at this stage is still to be set as I don't know what the laser cut component will cost but it should be significantly cheaper than the VMN Hilux kits as there is no need for a steering extension. Follow the link in my signature to the VMN website to see Hilux kit prices. I am hoping the full kit will be under $400, hopefully in the low $300's.

I am going to be off line for a week or so as I am having a minor operation on my wrist this week and I don't know how long before I will be able to work on stuff like this.

Sorry, it has taken so long to get this far, I know a few of you are following this with interest. If you have any questions fire away.
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