front bumper chop

[mickkk]

On the whole illegal vs legal. How many of us have changed thier emmisons via spv...

Or seat spacers

[mickkk]

In saying that I don't have either, and I have done everything to keep my car legal (for my state it's pretty easy so you are mad not to). But it's a pretty big call to state that there is not one thing that you could be picked up for if you had your car gone over with a fine tooth comb.
What I do wonder about is where I would stand if I either got pulled up whilst interstate, whose rules win there.
Or if it is the interstate rules you have to follow what would happen insurance wise if there was an accident interstate.
Sorry to hijack the thread but if anyone knows an answer to this I would very be thankful.

[charger265]

What I do wonder about is where I would stand if I either got pulled up whilst interstate, whose rules win there.
Or if it is the interstate rules you have to follow what would happen insurance wise if there was an accident interstate.

In Short regardless weather you have an engineering cert or not, if you do not comply with that states rules. Your vehicle will be deemed to have illegal modifications.

[triton_guru]

I almost got defected for having a light bar on my roof that hard a 1.6mm steel lense cover on so you cant see the actual lights at all and they still wanted to defect me for it, same station got my mate in his 07 Hilux and tried defecting him for his bonnet scoop even though its the factory scoop for the top mount. The issue is that the cops can defect you for what ever they like, hence the bloke from regency saying if he doesn't get you for your bumper he'll get you for something else. And unfortunately not mate you will be defected which is complete rubbish they need to make one set of rules

[charger265]

Agree they need to make one set of rules... But just look how hard it was for the teaching association to have a national base accreditation scheme... Cant see it happening for vehicle modification rules as they like to bend them in their own little way. eg/ Hoon laws for victoria

[NowForThe5th]

On the whole illegal vs legal. How many of us have changed thier emmisons via spv...

Or seat spacers

We're talking about a bumper chop here, not other mods. Let's restrict the discussion to the topic, please.

I know a few members had done a chop

I don't profess to have read every single build thread but I can't recall any previous discussion on this, other than what Stefanos has done, and he's not subject to the ADRs. Can you point out the other members who've done this so we can see what they've done and read up on it?

Here is the complete modifications listings for Sth Aus, interesting to say the least
https://www.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf ... s-8.14.pdf

There are a few things in that document that you might have missed.

Modifications to a vehicle, which contravene the requirements of the Road Traffic Act, will require a Certificate of
Exemption to cover the area of modification. This Exemption will identify the modification and any conditions that
are applicable. The following requirements are the basis for the granting an Exemption from the Road Traffic Act
and Regulations.

The Department of Planning, Transport and Infrastructure (DPTI) may request a report prepared by a Chartered
Professional Engineer (CPE) be submitted for vehicles, which have been extensively modified, to demonstrate that
the vehicle's safety features and compliance with relevant Australian Design Rules and Vehicle Standards Rules
have been maintained
.
It is recommended that you contact DPTI before making any modifications to check if a Statement of Requirements
is required for the proposed modification. It is also recommended that you notify your vehicles insurer regarding any
modifications undertaken.

and

The ADRs are federal requirements that vehicle manufacturers must comply with and cover issues such as
occupant protection, seatbelts, lighting, noise, engine exhaust emissions and braking requirements to name a few.
The ADRs for Motor Vehicle Safety are incorporated in State Legislation under the Road Traffic Act 1961. If
modifications to a vehicle are being considered it is important to establish the date of manufacture of the vehicle so
that it may be determined which rules may be affected.
Under the Road Traffic Act a motor vehicle that was manufactured to comply with an ADR must continue to comply
with that specific ADR unless a Certificate of Exemption is issued. Engine changes for example may effect the
emission control requirements of the ADRs.
Vehicles complying with ADRs are fitted with a compliance plate that identifies the vehicle, its category and other
certification information.

ADRs 69 and 73 come to mind immediately, but also 42 and the specific bullbar regulations.

[mickkk]

What I do wonder about is where I would stand if I either got pulled up whilst interstate, whose rules win there.
Or if it is the interstate rules you have to follow what would happen insurance wise if there was an accident interstate.

In Short regardless weather you have an engineering cert or not, if you do not comply with that states rules. Your vehicle will be deemed to have illegal modifications.

I sorta figured this, but I wonder where insurance would stand

[charger265]

I sorta figured this, but I wonder where insurance would stand

This is not with all insurance companies but i have been approved for 33" wheels when they are more than 10% over standard size (technically illegal) But still covered...

Some insurance companies will use this as an excuse even tho they covered you for the 33" tyres. They will still not payout due to the small print of illegal modification. This would also apply to a front bumper chop if deemed illegal by state laws.
But in my case i use a broker for all my policies and have it clearly written for my listed modifications i am covered. (this took a bit of work and messing around but well worth the time to have this in a clear statement from the insurer)

I can say in almost all cases where you have a policy where you stated your modifications they will insure you. But in the fine print you have already made you policy null and void as the listed modifications are illegal... They will still take your money if your too silly to read the fine print.

[ag9111]

Just because it is listed on your policy does not mean they will honour the policy if those tyres are deemed to be a contributing factor.
UNLESS
they are aware that the tyres are an illegal mod and they accept that risk.

Insurance companies will list on your policy what ever you tell them to as a modification. There job is not to ensure all mods are legal.
Your job is to make sure the vehicle is legal and they have the get out of jail card "The vehicle must be roadworth at all times"

[mickkk]

But my car is legal. It is a buggered system where you go the extra mile to ensure every mod that may affect road worthiness is legal before then going over the pits after to confirm. Yet if you go on a trip it's your responsibility to sift through all the regulations of each state (last year I did a trip through 5 states)
There is a sign at the borders stating that in this state the max speed limit is now 110.
The whole system is a joke. From other inquiries the answer has been no one has ever been knocked back for it.
I have a mate going to an insurance junket as apart of the 4wd associations. I have asked him to try to get an answer for me.

[triton_guru]

[/URL]

This is the kind of idea i was going for, hope this wont get me in trouble haha but i would keep the mesh grill as mesh and not the metal insert they have used in this picture. Chopping it in this way will ensure i can keep the bumper mounts and brackets.

[ratstriton]

I like it do it....

[Kegsy]

But my car is legal. It is a buggered system where you go the extra mile to ensure every mod that may affect road worthiness is legal before then going over the pits after to confirm. Yet if you go on a trip it's your responsibility to sift through all the regulations of each state (last year I did a trip through 5 states)
There is a sign at the borders stating that in this state the max speed limit is now 110.
The whole system is a joke. From other inquiries the answer has been no one has ever been knocked back for it.
I have a mate going to an insurance junket as apart of the 4wd associations. I have asked him to try to get an answer for me.

You only have to abide by the reg's of the state / territory in which your car is registered.

By having registration your vehicle is deemed safe and legal to operate in all states and territories of the country.

Now, that doesn't mean that mr plod won't try to defect you because he will and he can.
But the good news is if your are within the requirements of the state / territory in which you are registered its very easy to get the defect overturned.

I used to get in this position frequently when travelling to QLD in one of my other vehicles where a certain chassis modification is legal in NSW, but not in QLD. Every time I had the defect notice overturned without any problems once back in NSW.

[TheEscapist]

That looks very cool!

[Crash486]

Looks great!

[RHKTriton]

Its a big joke that a population of 20 odd million has all these fractured regulations.

Just another case for getting rid of State gov'ts and their little empire visions.

If items are covered by an ADR then that should be the end of the argument.

[Lunny]

[/URL]

This is the kind of idea i was going for, hope this wont get me in trouble haha but i would keep the mesh grill as mesh and not the metal insert they have used in this picture. Chopping it in this way will ensure i can keep the bumper mounts and brackets.

Do it, Looks mean .... stuff the nay sayers... stuff legalties... that thing looks mean....

On the whole illegal vs legal. How many of us have changed thier emmisons via spv...

Or seat spacers

We're talking about a bumper chop here, not other mods. Let's restrict the discussion to the topic, please.
quote]

they make a valid point, no matter what part of the forum... everyone is jumping on about legal terms... yet these are all valid points that are defective aswell.

goto newhilux and you will have a heart attack with some of the custom stuff done there... people who want to do something a little different here get flamed....

P.S.... im putting my fire retardent suit on now for the flaming i will get....

[hvac guy]

No different to removing the wings from the arb bull bar.

[Cowboy Dave]

I reckon some of the reports of 'flaming' are a bit overdone. Someone disagreeing with you is hardly flaming. Similarly a bit of an argument or exchange of views. Flaming to me is much more full on and undesirable and for the most part doesn't happen on this forum.

While I and other mods are very much alert to the fact that people are voicing disquiet about some of this sort of stuff there has been a lack of any real content from anyone as to what the actual issues are supposed to be. General comments about the vibe having changed, or the place seeming less friendly and stuff like that is almost impossible to respond to or do anything about. If there is something concrete or specific someone wants to say I for one would welcome a PM or two - no point in further derailing this thread with off topic posts about that.

People are perfectly able to discuss and consider and even execute illegal modifications on this forum - within reason I suppose, machine gun turrets or blades bolted to the rims might cause some issues - and this has always been the case. As others have pointed out there are plenty of posts about seat spacers, over-sized tyres, interfering with pollution controls and so on.

There is always a risk of people just copying what others have done though without appreciating the risks they are taking on, so at times people will pipe up and mention illegality in case others didn't know. This isn't a personal attack on the original illegal modder although some seem to treat it that way. I guess no one likes being told they might be wrong regardless of how you might dress it up.

Yes I had a bit of a rant earlier in this thread but if you read it properly you'll see it was more of a lament about a general approach these days where no one much gives a toss about the legal requirements and the fact that in some cases this can actually lead to safety issues, which again, many seem not to give a toss about. If me voicing a personal opinion which is contrary to those who don't give a toss (as described above) amounts to some sort of perceived forum bias or god forbid a flaming then by all means contact me and tell me so.

Frankly in the long run I think people get much greater benefit out of a sharing of a variety of views on a subject than they do from a bunch of blokes all nodding and patting each other on the backs and agreeing about everything, regardless of how dumb it might be. If you don't like the advice you get, don't follow it. But don't assume that those who proffered the advice with the best of intentions have some sort of hidden (or not so hidden) agenda just because they have a different view to your own.

And to avoid any doubt, none of the above it directed at the original bumper chop mod or the person proposing it. They're general observations made in response to others made above.

[dunney]

I reckon you should chop it. Its your car so do as you please, who cares if it's legal or not. I wasn't so sure it would look good but afte seeing pics I really like it.

[triton_guru]

I believe the legal talk on this thread is relevant as it was the first question I asked, I wanted to know the legal side of doing a bumper chop. What I dont understand is why people who dont know and i dare say alot wouldn't myself included whether its legal or not but can voice so strongly to say it is??? I try to keep my car legal to a point, my car is built for the purpose I intended to use it for. I appreciate all the support in the front bumper chop and I believe this is the type of encouragement this forum needs. When I was clear to me that no one had a clue on the legal side I contacted regency park myself and reported back what was said. Apparently it wasn't what some people wanted to hear because they then took what I said and made it sound like I was paraphrasing.

Mods I honestly think you guys havernt done yourselves any favours in this thread, normally I would listen and take on board what you guys say in threads because you know what your talking about but in this situation you dont, so why comment and state things that are possibly untrue? And then dismiss what I have found from regency?

I have been quoted for the front chop and hopefully will be getting done next month will post the before and after pictures asap

[Cowboy Dave]

As I've said before mate it's up to you. All I did was point out that the phone call you're relying on would be no more benefit to you than printing this thread out for the copper who decides he doesn't like it. You treating the phone call like it is gospel is a mistake (in my view) but it's your mistake and you're well entitled to make it.

[har05l]

Perhaps if you'd gone about it in the right way and enquired firstly with your local roads department and then got the chop done and then started a thread with the finished job this thread wouldn't have blown out like it did . I'll google any queries I have in life before going to a forum to ask a question

I'm reading a bit about people thinking they're getting victimised on NTN and are therefor having to go find a shoulder to cry on elsewhere , what a load of shit

If you don't like what you read well ignore it , that's what I do with all the shit I read on other forums

I've had my share of problems over the years but have been able to sort most of it out in a civil way and not publicly point a finger

Guru, I like your idea and think it will look when finished but for (censored) sake, stop the carry on please

[mickkk]

Perhaps he already knows you and how you keep your cars?

Because if they were looking at my vehicle there wouldn't be a single 'something else' they could get me for. They could look all day, every day,

Comments like "Perhaps he already knows you and how you keep your cars?" Makes things pretty personal and comes across with a bullying tone.
I some what agree with your rant, but I think you would have been better off to start a new thread for it, so it does not look like you are overreacting to a single post/person.
But to make the call you did is a pretty big call. "Because if they were looking at my vehicle there wouldn't be a single 'something else' they could get me for. They could look all day, every day,"
As others like 4wd26 pointed out that there is almost always something.
But then when two people question your statement they get pulled up for heading off topic, not 1/2 the thread heading off topic since your post.
If it was a general post saying keep it on topic, or split the thread. It comes across as we were picked out because we dare question another mod.
Then there was nowforthe5th comment (which he has now deleted) demanding him to show pics of how he thought had done the bumper chop to justify the thread. Again not really needed or productive and come over bad.

Other things like the disc/ drum debate. I don't want to start that debate up again, if after there seemed to be no way of changing gurus mind you could have just said we will have to agree to disagree. People are smart enough to work out who was right and wrong. But you all (as a group) kept to go on and on with it. People like born geek who never comments (in the free section anyway) was coming out of the wood works toe give him a hammering. Again comes over as bullying mentality.

I think that there was a problem with hammering new members starting a new thread asking if 33 will fit to the point of driving them away. you guys (the mod team) recognised this problem and worked out ways to change this and still get the outcome you wanted.

I think the mods fondness to delete post is a problem, and tighter restrictions need to be put on why a post can be deleted.
This seems to already be taken on board as I made pretty much the same post as lunny a week ago and it was removed within 5mins as I was questioning /arguing with a mod.

This forum was tops and was one of the reasons I was drawn to a triton in the first place. It won't take much to turn things around if people recognise there is a bit of a problem. If not more and more good members that contribute allot like jamo (I think that was his name) will continue to turn off and not bother.

[mickkk]

Just want to add that I know no one personally on the forum. Computers have a way of skewing the perceived or intended way things are said or come across. But that's just the way I see it over the last year