front bumper chop

[triton_guru]

After getting messed around with my xrox bar ive decided to cancel the order and do a front bumper chop with a decent skid plate, what my question is what are the legalizations on chopping the front bumper. Obviously there wont be any sharp objects etc but it will more than likely be chopped af the top of the bottom grill. I'm living in south Australia and not 100% sure on the rules regarding this.

Cheers guys

[NowForThe5th]

My guess is totally illegal.

The bar is ADR compliant in its original form, or you can replace it with an ADR compliant bar (e.g. ARB etc.) but as soon as you modify it it loses compliance.

At the very least it would need to be engineered.

[triton_guru]

The only thing I believe could be detectable is the tyre exposure, I cant see how anything else would be illegal

[NowForThe5th]

A bar is complianced to the ADRs. Any modification makes that bar non-compliant. There is a lot more going on in a bar's design than you might think. The bit you intend to chop may have an important function to play in impact absorption, for example. It may (more than likely does) add to the overall strength of the front of the car, even if the bottom part is only held on with clips, those clips all contribute to what happens in a collision. When we do bar replacements, or even repairs in my shop we have to be very careful that it is re-assembled exactly the way it came ex factory and they're not cut down like you intend.

In any modern car every single component is engineered to play a part in the overall strength of the vehicle. Some parts can't even be panel beaten back into shape because, once deformed, the lose their strength and have to be replaced. When replacing even the number and positioning of every spot weld must exactly match the original.

If you've ever watched any of those frontal collision tests by ANCAP you'll see what I mean. When the car hits the concrete block the bar deformes and transfers the impact to the guards and even to the splash trays underneath. Each part absorbs a little bit more before the block hits the airbag sensors, usually mounted each side of the radiator. Now, if you take away that integrity the car would hit with no impact absorption before the sensors and that could mean the difference between surviving, or not surviving the impact.

Sorry mate, but technically that's going to be illegal unless you get it engineered.

[ag9111]

The front bumper is only plastic and held on with a few screws. A piece of trim basically with no structural integrity.

The real bar is the steel one underneath.

[triton_guru]

Yh not my intention to touch any of the steel work just trim the plastic bumper and make the bash plate abit longer to compensate for the missing bumper

[NowForThe5th]

Clearly I've been outvoted by the certified practicing automotive engineers in our community, but I'm dumb enough to have one more try.

If you take a bar off a car, any car, and drive it around, sooner or later the cops will pull you up and defect you. Why? For the reasons I outlined above.

Yes, it's just a piece of plastic and yes, it's just held on with a few screws and/or clips. But it has a purpose and that is to absorb some of the impact in a collision. Maybe not much but you'd be surprised how fast you need to be travelling before an impact gets past a plastic bar to the reinforcing bar underneaath. Not point impacts, but an impact spread across a large part of the bar, as in hitting another car. If the plastic bar can absorb 5, or even 10km/h off the impact speed then it's done its job of impact absorption.

If you cut the bottom off a bar you remove the attachment points that it has and its shape, no longer a cone, won't do the job it was intended, designed to do. So, a 40km/h impact speed is still 40km/h when it hits the reo, not 35km/h. That transfers all the way through and, ultimately it's your legs or your chest that have to absorb that extra 5km/h.

The other side of the coin is what it might do to the other vehicle. By not spreading the impact, the way that the plastic bar would do, means that much greater forces are applied to a much smaller area on the other vehicle and that has implications for the way that its design is intended to work. So the risk is increased for the occupants of both vehicles.

You may have noticed that vehicles in Europe, and other places, are not even allowed to have bullbars like we have here. They have high risk of animal strike too - deer, moose and the like. But the registration authorities won't allow any changes at all, even to bars like those we can buy. Same reasoning.

If you were to add an extension to the bash plate, how would the front of it end? Just a flat piece of plate bolted to what's left of the plastic bar? Useless in terms of strength since the plastic bar was never intended to have a chunk of steel or aluminium attached to it there. And would the end just be cut straight? That would be like having a knife blade on the front of your car if you hit a pedestrian.

Not finished in a straight cut but turned up? So what are you going to attach it to? The plastic bar? See above for useless. Maybe the reinforcing bar? How? Not allowed to drill holes in it or weld to it. Cable ties maybe?

Look, I've resorted to being a smartarse to bring some emotion into my argument, but I'm 100% right. If bar chops were a viable alternative I could think of a dozen vehicles that would need one more than a Triton. Yet, you never see a bar chop. Ever wondered why that might be?

[FreestyleCab]

I can't see any problem in trimming plastic as long as the factory bar/crush cans are not modified. Though how do you support the cut edge? I can't remember how far the windscreen washer bottle hangs down, trimming the bumper may expose it.??

[gspy4u]

Any modifications to a factory fitted and designed bar will be illegal. In the nanny country we live in you basically can't change anything that isn't approved or certified.

By all means, change it, drive around in it and if lucky don't get booked. However, have an accident and not have any engineering certificate for it and forget about an insurance claim. The rear doesn't seem to be as much an issue as the front since the front is the collision zone with pedestrians. It may only be a piece of plastic, but it is designed for a specific purpose and approved as such.

Your call !

[triton_guru]

lol im not looking at chopping the bumper to the poitn where u would if you were going to bolt a bullbar on not by any means, what i was merely indicating is you look at a few utes on this site who have chopped the front bumper on the sides to get more wheel clearance i was hoping to do the same but a little bit at the front also. i fail to understand how this process works on stuff like this, by all means bolt a 5 post bullbar or another sort of steel bar on the front all good trim abit of plastic that would possibly get ripped off any way and its illegal lol. i have seen cars driving around with broken bumpers with bits missing whats the difference. the skid plate would come up just slightly behind the front bumper. the licence plate will still be the further most point of the car, i will make a call to regency and report back my findings.

cheers for the input guys good discussion

[RHKTriton]

I would think exposing any of the lower metalwork would result in some forward facing severe edges that could make the difference in killing a pedestrian that has wandered in front of a moving vehicle.

If people get canaries for a bit of loose trim or an extra light fitting - is it worth the risk?

[c-dale]

Guru, check my build thread for the corner trim. The washer bottle does sit very low so needs to be removed to do it. If you have a look under the front arches with the splash guard removed you will see an arm coming down to brace the side of the bumper, mine is cut just under this to retain this point of support. I just trimmed the angle, nothing along the front so thats unknown territory.

Good luck with it if you choose to go ahead.

[triton_guru]

just got off the phone with regency and his exact words were " aslong as it hasnt got any sharp protrusions its all good" i then asked him what were the possible things i could get defected for if i do this modification he then replied " mate under the road traffic laws they can get you for anything so if its not the bumper it will be something else". thats come straight from god (regency Park Adelaide)

[triton_guru]

cheers c-dale i have had abit of a stalk several times haha im just looking at chopping under the fog lights and straight across. there will be no sharp protrusions what so ever , what he has said makes sense because whats the difference to cars without air bags making custom bullbars and that

[4wd26]

check out some of the European builds, they take off the bumper, fabricate winch cradles etc in behind and then add back the bumper

they can be nicely done, and should be able to look "factory" so limiting second looks by the cops.

[FreestyleCab]

On a slightly different tack..... What about the performance car crowd that replace complete factory bumpers with aftermarket fiberglass ones of different shapes but still legal ground clearances? Are all those cars able to be defected, or more unsafe in a crash?

[triton_guru]

On a slightly different tack..... What about the performance car crowd that replace complete factory bumpers with aftermarket fiberglass ones of different shapes but still legal ground clearances? Are all those cars able to be defected, or more unsafe in a crash?

very interesting point, one that i never thought about, surely increase the amount of bumper would be more dangerous than trimming especially when those body kits are like 2" off the ground haha, very good point mate

[al coholic]

Why would you bother posting a thread asking how legal it would be to chop your front bumper, get told by several members that's it's quite likely to be illegal, then argue cause it's not the answer you wanted to hear??


For what it's worth Guru, I believe it would be legal and a worthwhile modification, I say go ahead and chop away You couldn't possibly expose more tyre than an xrox does....so all good!! Look forward to seeing how it turns out....

[triton_guru]

it was to start a general discussion on the topic mate and we have had some good feedback not to mention if anyone else is wondering the same thing or wants to do a chop then there is a thread for them to read just like any other thread on this site!!

i still dont know how the xrox made it through compliance haha butyeah your right exposure of the tyre is what i was worried about, 50% of the top half of the wheel i think is the regulation

[charger265]

Ok after a short bit of reading... (only VIC Laws)

This how ever is open to interpretation and with out a cert for the mod you wont have a leg to stand on if they want to bust you for it.


Vic Roads - Guide to Modifications for Motor Vehicles
Section 9.1 - VSB 14 Modification Code LH
The Following Modification do not require certification under the LH codes, if ther are carried out in accordance with the requirements specified in Sub-section 2 General Requirements and Sub-section 4 Modification Without Certification of section LH:
There is a list of things but (Customised and replacement panels) is in this section.

So lets look at section 2 - To be eligible for registration in victoria a vehicle must comply with the standards for registration applicable at its date of manufacture.

Now section 4 - Approved modifications
Long list here of approved mods but nothing specific to panel modification
- Any other modification that does not adversely affect the structural integrity of the vehicle, its handling characteristics, the operation of its safety systems or its compliance with relevant standards of registration


So in short if it meets the safety requirements for pedestrians and does not affect the structural integrity of the vehicle its legal in victoria. But as you can see there are huge grey area's here and without having it approved will just leave you open to having your vehicle rendered un-roadworthy and in the event of a collision could be found to have caused greater damage or loss of life.

Mod at your own risk

[har05l]

I've seen plenty of other bars apart from the xrox exposing just as much wheel, especially on prados. If I could be (censored) I'll have to start taking pics to prove it

Just chop the bloody thing and be done with it ffs

[triton_guru]

haha thinking i might buy a secondd bumper just incase hahaha will start looking into it after the beachport trip

[Joel]

Make sure you take some before and after photos for comparison. If you do manage to get defected there must be hundreds of bumpers out there that have been pulled off for bullbars you could pick up.

[har05l]

Make sure you take some before and after photos for comparison. If you do manage to get defected there must be hundreds of bumpers out there that have been pulled off for bullbars you could pick up.

All scrap Joel as the bumpers are already cut up to fit a bull bar.

If it is a fail it will be costly to replace and you'd scratch your head wondering why a bar wasn't fitted in the 1st place

[stefanos]

just got off the phone with regency and his exact words were " aslong as it hasnt got any sharp protrusions its all good" i then asked him what were the possible things i could get defected for if i do this modification he then replied " mate under the road traffic laws they can get you for anything so if its not the bumper it will be something else". thats come straight from god (regency Park Adelaide)

He is right guru!!!...I have done this 2 times.....and now (when I'm flipping the intercooler) I'm thinking for the 3rd.Our cars aren't stock any more......I don't know what's better....a litle choping or a metallic bar????......and what about the consciousness with people outside of the car????(touch wood).....if you can tell me that a compliant metal bar with winch,lights e.t.c more than 50-60kg with all these metal corner it's better.........then o.k!!!