front bumper chop

[Cowboy Dave]

just got off the phone with regency and his exact words were " aslong as it hasnt got any sharp protrusions its all good" i then asked him what were the possible things i could get defected for if i do this modification he then replied " mate under the road traffic laws they can get you for anything so if its not the bumper it will be something else". thats come straight from god (regency Park Adelaide)

It's funny how people take different emphasis out of the exact same words.

You're focussing on the 'it's all good' bit. Whereas I'm seeing this bit up in lights 'mate under the road traffic laws they can get you for anything so if its not the bumper it will be something else'.

Perhaps he already knows you and how you keep your cars?

Because if they were looking at my vehicle there wouldn't be a single 'something else' they could get me for. They could look all day, every day, and not find a single illegal modification. Call me straight, or a wet blanket, or worse, but I don't understand this flagrant disregard for the laws of the land. Maybe it's an age thing and we get a bit more conservative as we get older. Whether I agree with the laws or not, and often I don't, I'm not at all keen to incur fines, attract police attention, get my vehicle defected or put my insurance cover at risk. Or in the more extreme cases of these people running 35 inch wheels and wheel spacers and stupid stuff like that, putting the vehicle's safety and people's lives at risk.

And yet every day I'm reading here and on facebook about blokes who clearly think they're above the law, or smarter than everyone else or something else I haven't yet got a handle on. Sure a bumper chop doesn't sound like much and sure it may be that you'll never get called on it. But surely you also know when you stand up in court and repeat what I've quoted above as your excuse it isn't going to get you anywhere? If your lawyer is even stupid enough to let you say it - which I am confident wouldn't happen. Instead he'd shake his head and start explaining the penalties...

And surely you also know that all it takes is one mod to get constable plod interested, and once he's interested he's going to take his time and walk around to find all of the defects to make sure he's nailed you properly? For some of the blokes I've seen lately that will mean putting half the triton back together again to get it a clean bill of health and back on the road.

No doubt you'll carry on acting like you're smarter than the rest of the world and way less boring than me if you've even read this far through my post. And I'll behave myself and won't start posting pictures of Tritons on their roofs from other people who knew better, or links to articles about a kid who got killed when a wheel came off a car and flew off the road. And we can all keep hoping I'm wrong and nothing bad ever comes of this attitude that we can all do whatever we want with our cars, legality be damned.

[Quinny]

At the risk of getting smacked over the nose with a rolled up newspaper ... I'm going to have a crack at this ...

If you install a ARB or Ironman front bar (or other bar, whatever) you need to cut the front bumper during install. I'm guessing that because these bars have been tested and are compliant, (I'm not sure x-rox is or is not compliant ... dunno ) then the cutting of the bumper is also compliant because it has been tested and approved.

After that I have nothing ... move along - nothing to see here

Edit ... ^ I hate it when someone smarter than me responds while I'm typing

[4wd26]

So dave your tyres are legal?
No playing semantics with stickers
I'm sure if I was looking I could find a few things
What about axle loads

Not having a go, BUT even someone doing the correct thing, you can still get it wrong

And then it can be subjective, if someone wants to find something they will, even to stupid stuff like factory privacy glass on the rear of all tritons being too dark

[har05l]

then the cutting of the bumper is also compliant because it has been tested and approved.

The plastic bumper needs to be cut to fit the compliant bar, but if the bar wasn't fitted it wouldn't make just the cut bumper compliant

[Quinny]

I wish I knew everything just like you

[motoz]

just got off the phone with regency and his exact words were " aslong as it hasnt got any sharp protrusions its all good" i then asked him what were the possible things i could get defected for if i do this modification he then replied " mate under the road traffic laws they can get you for anything so if its not the bumper it will be something else". thats come straight from god (regency Park Adelaide)

It's funny how people take different emphasis out of the exact same words.

You're focussing on the 'it's all good' bit. Whereas I'm seeing this bit up in lights 'mate under the road traffic laws they can get you for anything so if its not the bumper it will be something else'.

Perhaps he already knows you and how you keep your cars?

Because if they were looking at my vehicle there wouldn't be a single 'something else' they could get me for. They could look all day, every day, and not find a single illegal modification. Call me straight, or a wet blanket, or worse, but I don't understand this flagrant disregard for the laws of the land. Maybe it's an age thing and we get a bit more conservative as we get older. Whether I agree with the laws or not, and often I don't, I'm not at all keen to incur fines, attract police attention, get my vehicle defected or put my insurance cover at risk. Or in the more extreme cases of these people running 35 inch wheels and wheel spacers and stupid stuff like that, putting the vehicle's safety and people's lives at risk.

And yet every day I'm reading here and on facebook about blokes who clearly think they're above the law, or smarter than everyone else or something else I haven't yet got a handle on. Sure a bumper chop doesn't sound like much and sure it may be that you'll never get called on it. But surely you also know when you stand up in court and repeat what I've quoted above as your excuse it isn't going to get you anywhere? If your lawyer is even stupid enough to let you say it - which I am confident wouldn't happen. Instead he'd shake his head and start explaining the penalties...

And surely you also know that all it takes is one mod to get constable plod interested, and once he's interested he's going to take his time and walk around to find all of the defects to make sure he's nailed you properly? For some of the blokes I've seen lately that will mean putting half the triton back together again to get it a clean bill of health and back on the road.

No doubt you'll carry on acting like you're smarter than the rest of the world and way less boring than me if you've even read this far through my post. And I'll behave myself and won't start posting pictures of Tritons on their roofs from other people who knew better, or links to articles about a kid who got killed when a wheel came off a car and flew off the road. And we can all keep hoping I'm wrong and nothing bad ever comes of this attitude that we can all do whatever we want with our cars, legality be damned.

Wrong thread buddy. Maybe the rant thread would be better for you !!!

[har05l]

I wish I knew everything just like you

I love it when you've got your funny pants on

Seriousness kills

[HGS]

Legal wise it would be illegal, because it changes the profile of your car if it hit a pedestrian, its not engineered, so there could be air bag issues as well. And insurance will pick it up if you are at fault in an accident, so probably no insurance. Personally I would get a approved bar like xrox, if it's approach angles you are after.

[Cowboy Dave]

Yeah maybe. But this thread and others like it have been getting up my nose of late. Surely we're all permitted an outburst or two every now and then.

And 26 my tyres are 265/65/17 which is legal in this state and as far as I know other states.

The OP here asked 'what my question is what are the legalizations on chopping the front bumper' and then having been told it wouldn't be legal ignored that and said he was going to go ahead anyway. And then people jumped in and basically said what the hell we're all doing illegal stuff so go ahead. And I just have some trouble reconciling that.

[har05l]

Deep slow breathes CD, deep slow breathes

[Cowboy Dave]

Yeah mate it's all good. Thinking of a quiet tranquil place and have opened my first can of relaxant for the night.

[Scale]

ASC anyone!

[har05l]

Might go and reignite the RD lock v FD lock thread now

[motoz]

They look pretty mean chopped !!!

[charger265]

The OP here asked 'what my question is what are the legalizations on chopping the front bumper' and then having been told it wouldn't be legal ignored that and said he was going to go ahead anyway. And then people jumped in and basically said what the hell we're all doing illegal stuff so go ahead. And I just have some trouble reconciling that.

Dont get me wrong im not trying to get you fired up...
Remember this only applies to VIC not SA (where the OP is) or NSW where you are.

By the terms and conditions of the legislation of Victoria it is legal to modify a panel, bonnet or any other part of the body work as long as it does not protrude outside the dimensions of the vehicle by X amount, It does not leave sharp edges for pedestrians to catch on (god knows how we get away with bullbars lights and winches) and does not affect the structural integrity of the vehicle.

Now if we look at it this way un-approve flairs, bonnet scoops and un approved bonnet protectors, side window wind protectors fall under the same category. Even additional caravan mirrors fall under the same category. These are all legal.

Now for the chop of the bumper. If the OP was to hack away at it and leave what was left floating in the breeze with un-used mounting points left bare and exposed i would call that an illegal mod. But if the bumpers rigidity was still intact there were no exposed sharp edges and a large percentage of the bumper was still intact then i would come very close to calling that a legal modification within the rules of the law...

But being the grill that is open for everyone to see and you did come across the law that wanted to pin you its like waving a red flag in their face... you may sway the argument with you knowledge of the law but by that stage they are climbing over everything with a fine tooth comb.

The people of the internet should have all the correct information at their disposal. If they so chose to use the information in a legal or illegal way that is their choice and their responsibility. I can see your point as a mod you have a responsibility to protect the site from legalities but if we look across the whole site just about everyone one of has some form of illegal mod. But if the users of this forum are willing to listen to posts that encourage them to "do it just because" with out getting their fact right so be it... Dont let it get you worked up... Its not worth it...

[Quinny]

Yeah .... but those little led lights are forward of the bumper ... ILLEGAL ... no soup for you ...

[borngeek]

yer chop it. chop it sooo gooood.

here are excellent instructions.

[Cowboy Dave]

Yeah charger I hear you mate. It's not so much this thread on it's own as an accumulation of things.

Every day on facebook you see people advocating illegal or technically illegal things. You see people post images of their cars, regos showing, while crowing about mods which are clearly outside the law and there's no way they've been blue plated. People read those posts and decide to emulate them, possibly without knowing just how un-kosher the mods in question are. And if you take the time to point the issues out then you're a wowser or other things our swear filter will remove if I type them.

And sure if you know all the rules and still ignore them I guess that's your choice. But occasionally there will be times where that's dangerous and I have a hard time ignoring that unfortunately. I mean I do ignore it, daily, but you end up wondering about what could be out there on the roads with us. And it's not something I ever want to be part of encouraging. I don't take any great pride in looking away I can tell you, but I know that for the most part there is absolutely no point to even entering the fray. The mindset is already there and nothing I could add in those circumstances is ever going to change that.

I'm not saying I have a particular fear of the OPs mods on the roads. Less of a bumper is unlikely (in my view at least) to lead to much injury to others. I've always had a problem conceptually with this idea that a bullbar has to be free of things which might do additional damage to a pedestrian for example? I mean they've just been hit with a 2-3 ton truck with a great lump of steel on the front. It's hard to see how much worse it might get if they snag a lightbar on the way up your bonnet. The proposed modification might bring some grief from the police or whatever but if that happens it will be a consequence of decisions made with the risks accepted.

For me it's more about this general sort of view that the rules really don't matter. And that it's some sort of challenge to see how many illicit mods you can get away with without being caught. Of course there are shades of grey, and rules that don't make a lot of sense. Nearly everyone is prepared to finesse something even at the smallest degree and usually for some good reason and after careful thought. But I'm sure we've all seen modifications or vehicles where we sort of scratched our head and thought man that could come seriously unstuck. And most of the time you shake your head and move on, not your problem, not your business, that sort of thing.

But it's a question of degree and this off-road caper can be dangerous. If you saw someone standing over a winch cable under load or snatching off a tow ball what is the correct reaction? Run as far away as you can get or say something before it goes bad? I can't say I know the answer but I'm pretty sure I'd be ducking behind something real solid while I made up my mind.

But if the height of my input to these discussions is an expression of dismay from behind a keyboard then there really isn't that much there for anyone to get too worked up about. Just another opinion from another bloke who may have a different view. It has no more weight or authority or influence than the next bloke's view. But that doesn't mean I can't express a view every now and then. If I do and you're reading it and you don't like it, keep reading, you'll eventually find someone else who says something you'll like more - that's one of the beauties (and perils) of this wonderful creature we call the internet.

[triton_guru]

just got off the phone with regency and his exact words were " aslong as it hasnt got any sharp protrusions its all good" i then asked him what were the possible things i could get defected for if i do this modification he then replied " mate under the road traffic laws they can get you for anything so if its not the bumper it will be something else". thats come straight from god (regency Park Adelaide)

It's funny how people take different emphasis out of the exact same words.

You're focussing on the 'it's all good' bit. Whereas I'm seeing this bit up in lights 'mate under the road traffic laws they can get you for anything so if its not the bumper it will be something else'.

Perhaps he already knows you and how you keep your cars?

Because if they were looking at my vehicle there wouldn't be a single 'something else' they could get me for. They could look all day, every day, and not find a single illegal modification. Call me straight, or a wet blanket, or worse, but I don't understand this flagrant disregard for the laws of the land. Maybe it's an age thing and we get a bit more conservative as we get older. Whether I agree with the laws or not, and often I don't, I'm not at all keen to incur fines, attract police attention, get my vehicle defected or put my insurance cover at risk. Or in the more extreme cases of these people running 35 inch wheels and wheel spacers and stupid stuff like that, putting the vehicle's safety and people's lives at risk.

And yet every day I'm reading here and on facebook about blokes who clearly think they're above the law, or smarter than everyone else or something else I haven't yet got a handle on. Sure a bumper chop doesn't sound like much and sure it may be that you'll never get called on it. But surely you also know when you stand up in court and repeat what I've quoted above as your excuse it isn't going to get you anywhere? If your lawyer is even stupid enough to let you say it - which I am confident wouldn't happen. Instead he'd shake his head and start explaining the penalties...

And surely you also know that all it takes is one mod to get constable plod interested, and once he's interested he's going to take his time and walk around to find all of the defects to make sure he's nailed you properly? For some of the blokes I've seen lately that will mean putting half the triton back together again to get it a clean bill of health and back on the road.

No doubt you'll carry on acting like you're smarter than the rest of the world and way less boring than me if you've even read this far through my post. And I'll behave myself and won't start posting pictures of Tritons on their roofs from other people who knew better, or links to articles about a kid who got killed when a wheel came off a car and flew off the road. And we can all keep hoping I'm wrong and nothing bad ever comes of this attitude that we can all do whatever we want with our cars, legality be damned.

So I'm assuming you have the same tyres that came with your car aswell as the original suspension cd? Pretty sure you have a mn with asc? Now what's more illegal cutting 3" off the bottom of the bumper or mucking around with your stability control? The reason I asked about the legal side of it is because I know a few members had done a chop so was after their experience and whether they have had any trouble with police. Ive looked at all the modifications for Sa regulations and of course nothing went into detail about chopping a front bumper. I had to source the answer myself which I did and also reported my findings to the exact words used. Nothing will be sharp protruding etc its purely to gain some clearance without having to put a bar on. I was not trying to start an argument more just a discussion with people who have thought about or already done the mod.

I appreciate all the helpful feed back received as it has helped my decision, I will be getting a mn front bumper and will try chopping that, I will then source a water bladder (comes with the xroxbar one) and I will extend the bash plate to cover the gap between the chopped bumper and the old bash plate. The bashplate will sit behind the bumper so will not protrude.

Once again thanks to all the helpful feedback o will post some pictures once it begins

[stefanos]

.....if you want I have a mold with left-right ends

[triton_guru]

.....if you want I have a mold with left-right ends

Might take you up on that mate haha.

Also Dave its not that I have ignored peoples answers because its not what I want to hear, its that no one actually knows for sure. If we were all to build our cars on other peoples assumptions where would we be, I was hoping someone would know for sure not just assume.

Stefanos can you email me a few pics of the triton with no bumper on if you still have some pics that is lol cheers mate

[stefanos]

I think I haven't mate!!! I have only when with chop....

[har05l]

Ok hans, as per the SA roads authority website.

The only thing I see that you'll need to do is after you cut the bumper bar you have to make sure you mould onto the bottom a round edge that points inwards towards the vehicle. A straight cut will come under the red highlighted section below which is just a snippet.


Hazardous projections
An object fitted to a vehicle must be designed, built and fitted to the vehicle in a way that minimises the likelihood of injury to a person making contact with the vehicle.
All equipment inside the vehicle such as fire extinguishers, GPS Navigation or additional gauges etc should be securely fastened. It is recommended that cargo anchorage systems should be capable of withstanding a force equal to twenty times the mass of the equipment. Cargo barrier protection screens are available for many station wagon and light commercial vehicles and are highly recommended.
However, if the vehicle was designed before 1965 and such object was part of the design of the vehicle this may be permissible.
No vehicle must be equipped with:
 any object or fitting, not technically essential to such vehicle, which protrudes from any part of the vehicle so that it is likely to increase the risk of bodily injury to any person;
 any object or fitting technically essential to such vehicle unless its design, construction and conditions and the manner in which it is affixed to the vehicle are such as to reduce to a minimum the risk of bodily injury to any person;
 any object or fitting which, because it is pointed or has a sharp edge, is likely to increase the risk of bodily injury to any person; or
 any bumper bar the end of which is not turned towards the body of the vehicle to a sufficient extent to avoid any risk of hooking or grazing.

Here is the complete modifications listings for Sth Aus, interesting to say the least

https://www.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf ... s-8.14.pdf

[stefanos]

Very interesting.

[Bigbirdalx]

On the whole illegal vs legal. How many of us have changed thier emmisons via spv...