PB Challenger Dual Battery Install

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PB Challenger Dual Battery Install

Postby killa on Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:18 pm

The time has come for the next mod on my Challenger; this one takes a little thinking so I thought I’d start a thread with my thoughts ‘out loud’ so that the knowledgeable folk here might be able to pitch in before the money gets spent.

I’ve been spending a lot of time reading the Dual Battery install threads (listed below) before posting this but wanted to start a new one as this install is Challenger specific and as such is kinda different to what has been done on here before. It may get added into my build thread later instead, who knows?

The Plan:
To install a 105AH AGM battery in the rear cargo area behind the interior trim. There’s a lot of wasted space here in the PB Challenger, especially on the driver’s side.
It has been done before; I’m following the brief references laid down in the Vic Pajero Club Forum by MikeL.
Link: http://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/sho ... 839&page=2

Pics Stolen from MikeL’s build:
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Quotes from MikeL (edited slightly for cleaner reading):
MikeL wrote: Rather than have my dual battery floating around in the boot I installed a 100Ah AGM battery in behind the right rear wheel.
It is hidden behind the existing panel and the only mod required was removing the 12V socket.
There's plenty of steel to bolt a home made battery tray to.
I cut a battery box in half to shield against any possible shorts on the body and ran the cables via 40A circuit breakers inside the car and through front firewall to a Redarc isolator.

There's heaps of room in there so I put in some fused 12V and USB sockets as well as a solar charge controller and battery monitor.


MikeL wrote:Here's a few snaps. The panel with the sockets in it pops out so I can change the fuses. The second battery end breaker is in the large white junction box - the small white one near the fuses is a breakout.

The battery tray is bolted to a couple of one inch square steel tubes which is in turn bolted to the body at each end - LHS bolt is clamping on the wheel arch flange as I didn't want to drill it.
The first version of the battery holder top had a large washer in it which gave a slight dent to the outside panel so I modified the holder a bit and put a spacer on the body side of the tray to keep the battery as inboard as possible - it is rock solid now.

The isolator and other breaker is mounted in the engine bay on the passenger firewall with wiring entering the body through the grommet that carries the vast bulk of the loom.


MikeL wrote:The battery is a 105AH from Fullriver. Tech specs are here, including dimensions, etc. http://www.fullriver.com/products/ad...e/DC105-12.pdf

Don't have a schematic, but essentially, dual battery is grounded to chassis
(yeah, I know, don't do that, but I've got less than 10mV drop over the whole circuit, so proves the Challenger isn't made of tinfoil)
Then +ve on dual battery is split
- one wire goes to breakout box for sockets
- the other wire goes to a self resetting circuit breaker and then follows a continuous run to the other circuit breaker on the firewall into the isolator which is then wired into the +ve terminal of the crank battery.

You think that if Mike ever reads this he’ll be ok with borrowing all that ;) LOL

Some of the NTN Dual Battery threads for reference:
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=4416&hilit=dual+battery

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=10055&hilit=dual+battery

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=12106&p=285362&hilit=dual+battery#p285362

The Equipment:
Battery of choice will be the 105 AH Neuton Power AGM Deep Cycle unit as it's apparently a re-badged FullRiver DC105-12 (dimensions and specs are very comparable to the linke MikeL posted above). I'm happy to be corrected here as I've only chosen this one due to local availability. It's priced well even with Townsville Tax and freight at just $10 over the best Internet price I can find.

For an isolator I'm considering the Redarc SBI12 and the Ctek 250S Dual
The Redarc is a consideration for me as it is A) a lot cheaper and B) I do a lot of high mileage driving (40,000km in 11months so far) so the 'low charge' issue should be fairly minor for me.

Of course, I'll chuck in circuit breakers at each end of the power cable for safety too :mrgreen:

So:
Your turn. Where can you see me going wrong? Is there anything I've missed? (electronics are not my forte :shock: )
Cheers,

Cal
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Re: PB Challenger Dual Battery Install

Postby hvac guy on Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:02 pm

You will need the ctek with the agm to correctly charge it
And to stop over charging as well
With out going in to much detail but a cars alternator can not charge a agm battery correctly.
No matter what so called experts say in battery shops

A good agm will have a port to connect a tube to vent out of the car.
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Re: PB Challenger Dual Battery Install

Postby Naff on Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:18 pm

Nothing wrong with a redarc setup and the odd (twice a year) deep cycle charge from mains power.
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Re: PB Challenger Dual Battery Install

Postby Cowboy Dave on Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:43 pm

Not all AGM batteries have vents. Mine is a sealed unit. Can be mounted in any direction (upside down even) which was one of the attractions for the AGM for me.

Are you concerned at all about weight? They're pretty heavy and you're behind the rear axle. Maybe you want another on the other side to even it out :lol: :lol: . In relation to the tray check out ABR sidewinder - they have a couple of metal battery trays that would probably work well with what you're trying to do there.
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Re: PB Challenger Dual Battery Install

Postby snowman on Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:56 am

i have a Matson solenoid.

when i had my VERY reputable auto sparky do the install i asked, more than once, if it will do the job and could they please install a Ctek or similiar. They kept asking me why.

the Matson cost me about $120 RRP (so probably cheaper on net etc.) and they said they have installed hundreds if not thousands over their time and never had one come back. They are a simple concept.

since it was installed i often check if it is charging as all the naysayer s indicated these 'dumb' systems wont charge straight away. but i can assure you 5 seconds after i have started my car i am getting charge to the rear battery.

The AGM is BRILLIANT as well. it charges very quickly and allows me to keep it from going flat with only small use every day. i don't vent it. Rarely do i need other external charging but i do during summer when the car sits for more than one day (i have a fridge in the back all the time). Mind you i don't sit there ready every damn volt.
This car is like a bad drug habit. It is taking all my money and time, my family are concerned, but new mods just feel sooooooo good.
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Re: PB Challenger Dual Battery Install

Postby dismatpe on Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:56 am

I would revisit the cable sizes choosen. Maybe do some load calcs from the alternator to the AGM via ctek and then from the AGM to the 12V distribution. If your not cranking from the AGM and only charging you don't keed really big cables....
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Re: PB Challenger Dual Battery Install

Postby hvac guy on Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:52 am

Without a switch mode charger (ctek) u will never ever
Get a full charge on your battery

If your battery is 105ah u will have about 90ah when charging of the alternator
and slower recharge time and lower life of the battery

If u charge with a switch mode charger like ctek u will have the full
105ah available and longer life as well as shorter recharge time.

At the end of the day both will work but there's no substitute for reliability
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Re: PB Challenger Dual Battery Install

Postby killa on Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:01 pm

Well bit the bullet today and ordered the Ctek D250S Dual.
Also collected some 8mm wire, 30A circuit breakers and lugs for the cable from the local auto lekky. Then went around the corner to the battery wholesaler and picked up a couple of cheap mounting options to cut up over the weekend (battery box $20 and a tray $10).
Need to collect some scrap steel tomorrow and some smaller cable for the accessories.
Cheers,

Cal
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Re: PB Challenger Dual Battery Install

Postby killa on Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:59 am

Finally made some progress on this today.

Battery Tray was designed and fabrication has started. The angle is 30x30x3mm, the flat is 30x3mm.
First pic was the initial test fit, there is too much flex like this so the sketch was modified and I'm adding the bracing now.
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Cheers,

Cal
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Re: PB Challenger Dual Battery Install

Postby killa on Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:32 pm

Getting there. This is one of the rare times that I wish I lived closer to town as there are a few minor bits I need to finish this off but all in all I think it's a pretty good effort for one weekend :D
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Cheers,

Cal
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Re: PB Challenger Dual Battery Install

Postby killa on Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:56 pm

All wired up :D

Ctek lights are on, 13.9V in 14.2V out at idle 8-)
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Cal
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Re: PB Challenger Dual Battery Install

Postby MLTRIT08 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:42 pm

Nice work Killa, Unreal how much room there is for a dual bat install :o
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Re: PB Challenger Dual Battery Install

Postby ag9111 on Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:33 pm

What a wasted void. :o

AGM battery is much better there, than in the engine bay. They dont like heat.

Ctek was a good choice as a regulator as an AGM does need a slightly higher charge voltage than the alternator can supply. 8mm cable is more than adequate for your needs, no need for 16mm cable like some install. Hope the cable was tinned to stop corrosion

Well done
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Re: PB Challenger Dual Battery Install

Postby hvac guy on Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:45 pm

if you have room try too cover those battery terminals with some plastic ie bread board or some thick plastic just in case.

u get rear ended

but well done on the install its good to see the voltage differance with the ctek what makes it even cooler
is when u have the head lights on it still puts out 14.4volts
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Re: PB Challenger Dual Battery Install

Postby rosscomatic on Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:45 am

Hi all

I've gone along the same path and put the battery behind the trim there... Here's my writeup.
http://www.offroadaussie.com/2012/01/re ... tallation/

Seems to work OK so far... I still need to fix my fuse box, wire in the UHF, wire in another 12v socket in the centre console. And then do some more when my rear draw setup gets built (one day).

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Re: PB Challenger Dual Battery Install

Postby cookie1 on Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:28 pm

Those installs look fantastic, I dont suppose there is anyone making a tray one could purchase? Not keen on extra battery in the engine bay.
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Re: PB Challenger Dual Battery Install

Postby killa on Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:41 pm

cookie1 wrote:Those installs look fantastic, I dont suppose there is anyone making a tray one could purchase? Not keen on extra battery in the engine bay.

Nope, the really sucky thing for you is that I finally threw that tray out week before last as I had kept it when I sold the Challenger.

On another note, don't use the M8 threaded hole on the pinch weld above the wheel arch. It is simply not strong enough and fatigues very quickly.
Cheers,

Cal
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Re: PB Challenger Dual Battery Install

Postby cookie1 on Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:03 pm

killa wrote:
cookie1 wrote:Those installs look fantastic, I dont suppose there is anyone making a tray one could purchase? Not keen on extra battery in the engine bay.

Nope, the really sucky thing for you is that I finally threw that tray out week before last as I had kept it when I sold the Challenger.

On another note, don't use the M8 threaded hole on the pinch weld above the wheel arch. It is simply not strong enough and fatigues very quickly.


Ha, murphys law hey!

Thanks for the tip about the hole, if I get around to it I'll keep that in mind!
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Re: PB Challenger Dual Battery Install

Postby Evil lurkes here on Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:33 pm

Has anyone found room under the bonnet for a 2nd battery?

I like the concept of hiding it in the rear qtr but I'm not 100% sure the mounting of it would be safe enough for my liking.

Please no one take that as having a go at their work or stuff, we all build and fiddle with our cars they way we like. I may be just a pit paranoid about electrickery is all
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Re: PB Challenger Dual Battery Install

Postby Cowboy Dave on Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:40 pm

It's much the same as the MN under the hood isn't it? If so then yes you can squeeze a second battery in there.
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Re: PB Challenger Dual Battery Install

Postby cookie1 on Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:30 pm

Evil lurkes here wrote:Has anyone found room under the bonnet for a 2nd battery?

I like the concept of hiding it in the rear qtr but I'm not 100% sure the mounting of it would be safe enough for my liking.

Please no one take that as having a go at their work or stuff, we all build and fiddle with our cars they way we like. I may be just a pit paranoid about electrickery is all


Pretty common putting both in the engine bay. Lots to choose from with dual battery trays however it ends up pretty packed in with both batteries and all the bits. Not sure what I'll do, probably something easy to remove from the rear cargo area. Pity the raps36 is not quite enough capacity as its on sale at the moment: http://www.getawaeco.com.au/index.php?s ... &itemid=10
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Re: PB Challenger Dual Battery Install

Postby coughy on Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:34 pm

yes there is m8 sorry stolen from a nother forum
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this is in a challenger
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Re: PB Challenger Dual Battery Install

Postby cookie1 on Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:58 pm

Thanks for the pics. That tray is $200 posted so not to bad.
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Re: PB Challenger Dual Battery Install

Postby Greedy on Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:17 pm

cookie1 wrote:Thanks for the pics. That tray is $200 posted so not to bad.

TJM do one for $150 as well. Just fitted mine this week.
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Re: PB Challenger Dual Battery Install

Postby Evil lurkes here on Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:04 pm

Thanks for the pics guys.

I was gunna order th Roadrunner Offroad one for $177 off ebay on Monday but now I think I shall ring TJM and check if they will do ther $150 price. It sounds to good to be true!
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