Egr blanking plate in mq???

[MadMQ]

I installed mine last night, instantly noticed the lack of turbo lag on take off. I hooked up a scan gauge to confirm the EGR is disabled and to check the boost side of things. EGR turned of as stated, the boost appeared to be a little down from the pre installed test (minimal), but the lack of turbo lag is what impressed me the most.
I am going to give a good run this week end loaded up with the usual camping gear and bikes. It will be interesting to see how the fuel economy will be after this run. So far not bad.

[jerrah]

Doesn't this answer your questions?

Not really. I've been doing some rather extensive reading on the history behind the electronic block - there is a lot of information on this forum and others going on for many many pages and I now have a fairly strong understanding of how this modification has been accomplished previously. It's no great secret from all the previously published information.

100 pages here on the ML/MN
And another 50 pages on the Pajero forum

The major questions start coming up where people have said that the MQ is different to the ML/MN but the solution seems awfully like another box with a resistor(s) in it. I'm quite happy with the product but after the comments earlier by the developer of the product I'm feeling a bit uneasy about such factors as the DPF given it was specifically mentioned earlier. Is the DPF still going to do a burn if temp sensor 1 reads below 10c?

In this thread Tony said: MQ not quite same as others and I would give word of caution with DPF and EGR warm up etc.

I don't need the developer to pull back the curtain on the specific resistances but it would be good to have an explanation of specifically why the MQ solution is different to the previous models. The cynic in me would suggest it's probably not all that different but it needed to be tested and confirmed and people are trying to steer potential purchasers away from the cheaper knock-off unit.

[jerrah]

instantly noticed the lack of turbo lag on take off.

It is definitely noticeable. As Tony said

Quicker spool is obtained by dealing with the throttle body closing under EGR command

so it's probably a combination of the EGR being shut and also not trying to suddenly accelerate through a computer controlled throttle plate.

the boost appeared to be a little down from the pre installed test (minimal)

I don't think peak boost levels are the whole story of performance. Maybe having the electronic throttle plate in play artificially raises the reported boost figures? It's also possible the ECU may reduce the boost based on the temp1 sensor but I'd assume it would make boost based off the 2nd sensor post intercooler. I'd be good if someone (or chip tuning) would put an MQ on a dyno to see the boost under load and how it changes the torque curve before and after the modification.

I can't seem it happening without someone ponying up the money for dyno time though!

[ls2cruiser]

jerrah, i see what you mean now about the EGR delete module could effect DPF burn off . It would be good if this particular point could be clarified by "Tony" so we know how it operates here. The last thing we want is to effect the DPF operation and have problems with it instead. Tony must be a very good tuner in his own right.

[Spaceman]

On the chiptuning web site it states with the EGR in at 100 kph the EGT was 380 deg. With ERG blocked off it was only 300 deg EGT. The DPF may use the EGR to assist the burn off by raising the exhaust temp. But if there is less crap going into the exhaust than it may not need to burn off. Due to the module so easy to remove maybe take it off and give the ute a good blat to give DPF a good clean every now and then

[ls2cruiser]

Thanks Spaceman, i missed that info on chiptuning's website. That is a big difference in exhaust temp. Does anyone know exactly how the EGR increases the exhaust temp by 80c. Is it because it sends exhaust into the intake which eventually goes out the exhaust again. I am intrigued how it does it.
The catch can when fitted would stop a lot of crap going into the exhaust for sure and that should help the DPF . Stopping the EGR from sending exhaust into the intake will stop crap from going into the engine but maybe not change the amount of crap going into the exhaust. Not sure.
If the engine needs to do a DPF burn then I think the ECU sends fuel into the engine on the exhaust stroke to greatly increase EGT. The last thing we want to have to do is take the EGR delete out now and again. That would be a nuisance.

[jerrah]

This Wikipedia article claims that without the EGR the DPF will regenerate easier. It's not flush with references to back up it's claims though.

The nitrogen dioxide component of NOx emissions is the primary oxidizer of the soot caught in the DPF at normal operating temperatures. This process is known as passive regeneration. Increasing EGR rates cause passive regeneration to be less effective at managing the PM loading in the DPF.

[Spaceman]

But all is not lost. Wiki states that EGR reduce the combustion temp by replacing some of oxygen with exhaust gas which adds nothing to combustion there for reducing NOx output. This appear to be same message across the net.

[Merts]

I ordered one of the modules from ChipTuning yesterday morning, and it arrived today. How's that for service?

I've installed it, and everything appears to be operating as expected.
Exhaust Cat1 sensor readings on my Ultragauge whilst driving around town appear unchanged from what they were before the device was installed. Temps vary between 300-400 degrees depending on speed, pedal position etc. Most of the time it's around 350 to 380, which is exactly how it was before.

I reckon the engine takes a fraction of a second longer to shut down after the key is turned off. Still shuts down smoothly, so all good.

The main thing I've noticed is the annoying turbo lag off idle is completely gone. It is an entirely different, and far more pleasant car to drive.

I've only driven a few kms so far, but fuel consumption according to the dash readout appears to be very slightly less than it was. I have been keeping fuel used vs kms travelled figures and will continue to do so, and will report what I find after I've put a few tanks of juice through it.

So far, I'm a very happy camper.

[ls2cruiser]

Thanks Merts, you found the exhaust gas temps the same so that is good for the poor old DPF .

[jerrah]

Exhaust Cat1 sensor readings on my Ultragauge whilst driving around town appear unchanged

I'm not sure if I can get those readings easily from my Scanguage. Where did you purchase the Ultraguage from?

I reckon the engine takes a fraction of a second longer to shut down after the key is turned off.

I've noticed the same thing but I thought it was a trick of the mind. Possibly stock the throttle plate is normally close to closed at idle whereas now it has to cycle from 100% to 0%.

The main thing I've noticed is the annoying turbo lag off idle is completely gone. It is an entirely different, and far more pleasant car to drive.

I wasn't sure the autos would notice this as much as the manual. The manuals are a bit prone to stalling cold unless you blip the throttle a little. It doesn't have that snuffing feeling with the mod installed. I still think it feels a bit flat in the midrange.

I didn't do enough appropriate driving (heavy traffic) to make comment on fuel economy.

Merts have you noticed what sort of boost readings you were getting before and after?

[jerrah]

that is good for the poor old DPF .

I think I'd be more concerned whether the car will do an active regeneration of the DPF if required rather than whether the exhaust temps are different. If the temp1 sensor reads low (cold) causing the EGR to be disabled, will the ECU still do a regeneration? You will generate less soot now than before so the passive regenerations may take care of what you need.

[Spaceman]

I'm sure the DPF looks at the pressure differential front to back to ascertain the flow level to work out to burn off.

[Merts]

Gidday Jerrah.

I bought the Ultraguage from their website a few years back when I had my somewhat problematic NS Pajero.

Cant comment regarding boost figures as I've never monitored them.

[MadMQ]

Hey Jerrah,
"I still think it feels a bit flat in the midrange."
I must admit I thought the same, it seems to feel very linear in the power through the rev range.
I am keen to see how it feels once I have it loaded up with a trailer and camping gear.

[borngeek]

Chip tuning module is NOT made by Tony of spvi.



I am not sure where chip tuning has had them made, nor seen one.

The euro5 emissions standard works differently to the previous euro4. These cables I wouldn't recommend them on these engines. More needs to be changed to not affect the dpf.. this is an ongoing development to make it safe.

So there are your questions answered?

[explorer.dave]

I am not sure where chip tuning has had them made, nor seen one.

Just got off the phone from chip tuning, they are made by them apparently, and correct Geek, not made by Tony or spvi.

My apologies if l have mislead any-one.

[Merts]

This is the blurb regarding the remapping solution Chip Tuning have for the MQ.
They have been able to extract the data from the factory ECU.

https://chiptuning.com.au/mq-triton-dpf ... e-done-it/

I would be rather surprised if their EGR off module doesn't take this data into account. Why would they sell a product which would negatively effect the DPF operation when they have waited until they 'cracked' the data before producing the solution?

[jerrah]

Chip tuning module is NOT made by Tony of spvi.

That's interesting. I assumed Chip Tuning and SPvi were connected or in a partnership due to previously selling his modules and SPVi reselling their tuning. You obviously have a direct contact with Tony and family so have an understanding we can't possibly have.

Tony on Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:23 pm
SPVi have been through our own development on this model and we do have plug and play solution but due to our current work load, they have not been officially released.

Tony on Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:56 pm
re:Chip Tuning and EGR off tune:
They have released EGR off and DPF off ECU remap for MQ. (Can be organised through SPV Industries)
The plug and play version (EGR only) is sourced from SPV Industries, however not officially released yet but they do exist.

I heard from Tony's wife back in Jan 2017 who indicated that they may have been entering sample production (not a commercial quantity) but I haven't heard anything since. So when these appeared at Chip Tuning it's easy to see why people assumed this was finally the product we've been waiting for.

I understand Tony has been involved in the recent natural disasters / bushfires so can't expect him to get onto the forum, but this has been a bit confusing as an end client. I'm sure we would all like to support his research and development if/when it is available. Clearly the members of the forum all jumped in and purchased this one because they believed Tony had finally released it 6 months after the announcement.

[ls2cruiser]

bugger !!!

[Spaceman]

Time to pull the back off and break out the multi meter. See if the wiring is the same crisp module or is there more to it

[jerrah]

Using my super-cheap (not the shop, just low quality) multimeter it appears to have continuity between both ends on 1,2,3 & 5. I can't seem to get a resistance reading on 4 but I assume if pin 5 is straight through it wouldn't be looped over 4 & 5. Couldn't get a resistance reading but then - extremely cheap multimeter of dubious quality. Edit, trying again I appear to be getting a resistance of 22k on the "4&5" (which appears to be 1 and 2 looking at some pictures online of 5 wire MAF plugs)...

For reference this is GreyTriton's test of the Munji cable. I'd appreciate feedback from other owners of the box who own better multimeters as 22k sounds way too high unless I've messed up my testing. Might be more to it also.

Edit: I've got my hands on a Munji cable, the same two pins with my multimeter displays 15k. 1,2,3 have continuity. 4 & 5 do not and appear to be linked (As per Grey Triton's findings) I've confirmed again that the 5th wire in the Chip Tuning box appears to be connected straight through.

Discussion on values used in MN's

[Greytriton]

I get 24-27 psi all day

[ls2cruiser]

And?

[Greytriton]

Id like to know whats so special in all the boxes no matter who makes it.

Cheap box = a resistor on the intake temp sensor wire.

Expensive box = Possibly similar resistor encased in black resin so you cant see.

Id like someone else to do a comprehensive before and after test , monitoring boost pressures. Take pictures etc., Show me.

Like i said, i had a repeatable loss of 4 psi with a EGR delete module installed. Took it off and put up with the occasional clearable error with the full blanking plate.

OR everyone get defensive about it and play secret modules with black bog inside.

Its like Jehovah's witness when they come to the door. I tell them the same thing. I need evidence before i believe. If they could turn my garden rake into a snake before my eyes i would convert on the spot.