Egr blanking plate in mq???

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Re: Egr blanking plate in mq???

Postby NowForThe5th on Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:32 pm

In my opinion....

Cheap box = simple resistor, but while this works with the EGR, there are side effects because there are times when the EGR valve has to open on the MQ. Plus, of course things like an apparently inexplicable 4psi loss.

Expensive box = many hours of research, testing and development. A big investment in time and money that needs protection - hence the resin filling. I'm not sure if these things can be patented or registered as a design. If they could I guess that we'd see "Patent Pending" or similar on them.

The problem, though, as I see it, is that too many people are such cheapskates that they're not prepared to simply accept that a module works but want to know why so they can duplicate it at less cost. No consideration for the bloke or organisation that went to the trouble and expense of developing the product - threads appeared everywhere proclaiming "Block your EGR for $1" when the first commercially produced modules appeared. I find it amusing that we're quick to criticise the Chinese for copying products, but have no hesitation doing the same thing ourselves to save a few dollars or just spread the word so that others can and thereby cheat the developer out of any return on his investment.

It's a take attitude that gets right up my nose when the developers of these products are little guys that put their own time and money into coming up with something that works. In my view if I plug it in and it does the job, properly and without side effects then I just accept that. No need for miracles.

Anyway, rant over and I'm not pointing the finger at any individual.

As I understand it, the current state of the EGR blocking options are a blanking plate with codes, a couple of simple resistor modules that may or may not have side effects, a module from Chip Tuning that claims to have sorted out all the issues and one nearing completion of development from SPV.
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Re: Egr in mq???

Postby jerrah on Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:22 pm

NowForThe5th wrote:too many people are such cheapskates
I think the 5th generation section has no shortage of people willing to buy a completed solution. Looking on eBay Munji has sold 100+ of his MQ kits (reported sales from eBay not claims) and this thread was instantly alive with people having purchased the Chip Tuning unit on the belief it was SPVi's unit. I've seen nobody in this section cutting wires and adding bullet connectors like in the 4th gen threads. Even people who HAVE fitted plates are holding out for the SPVi solution. That said I don't think it's unreasonable for disappointed people to want to know what they're plugging into their $40K+ vehicle.

NowForThe5th wrote:they're not prepared to simply accept that a module works but want to know why so they can duplicate it at less cost.
I want to know why for lots of reasons but I have no interest in duplicating it if it works. I work in a technical field where I develop computerised solutions for things. As a hobby I've built my own ECU units for forced induction petrol cars, tuned them and made improvements to the software so tuning cars is a bit of a passion of mine. Mostly I want to be reassured of how these are working so I know my good hard money is going to the tried and tested solution that is reportedly developed by Tony. I bought the Chip Tuning unit in the good faith it was Tony's but I didn't ask the question of Chip Tuning myself, and I guess that's more fool me.

If I had more time I'd develop my own solution but at this stage I'm happy to pay to play and I'm more than happy to pay Tony if I could. I appreciate that Tony is a busy farmer and he's allegedly doing extensive testing but he's sure having his sales cut out from under him by the competition at the moment regardless of how flawed their products may be. Hopefully his unit is as good as people say.

It's a take attitude that gets right up my nose
I think people are genuinely concerned that there are a lot of products around which don't deliver on what they've promised. I'd hazard a guess that most of the 5th Gen Triton owners are new to this site and haven't met or had any forum history with Tony. All we have to go on is that he's going to deliver what we need hype from older members and occasional reassuring words that something will be released eventually and we're to hold out. From that faith perspective what reassurance do we have that it will be better than the others already on the market without some understanding of what we're buying?

NowForThe5th wrote:there are times when the EGR valve has to open on the MQ. Plus, of course things like an apparently inexplicable 4psi loss.
My understanding is all of the MAF plug in modifications that effect the IAT will have no restriction on the EGR being controlled by the ECU if required. I've trialled both the Munji and Chip tuning modules and they both "appear" to have an audible release of air on gear changes. They both modify the IAT wire but in slightly different methods. I haven't monitored my EGR valve on the Scantool to confirm however.

I cannot confirm the 4psi boost loss that Greytriton has. My MQ makes 21-ish PSI flat out up a hill with or without any of the plug ins. Greytriton does run a EGR plate block which may be increasing his reported boost given his throttle plate isn't locked 100% open? To confirm or deny "boost" levels we need a sample size more than two and possibly some time on a load dyno.

NowForThe5th wrote:The problem, though, as I see it, is that too many people are such cheapskates that they're not prepared to simply accept that a module works
In the same token should we just believe the Munji and Chip Tuning modules? They both make claims to slice bread and bring world peace? Why is Tony's better than theirs without some kind of scientific validation?

I'm sorry 5th, I shouldn't take it personally but I found some of your comments about "cheapskates" rubbed me the wrong way when I think we're all just looking to solve a problem as a community and nobody is trying to rip off anybodies IP. I'm going to refrain from this topic until the "next best thing" is released.
Last edited by jerrah on Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Egr blanking plate in mq???

Postby NowForThe5th on Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:09 pm

Fair comments, jerrah. Like I said, just my opinions and they're probably somewhat clouded by what happened here and elsewhere with the 4th Gen solutions.

In response to your questions on when the SPV product may be available and how can you be reassured that it will work I can only say "I don't know" to the first part. For the second part I do know Tony and think that I have a pretty good idea of what drives him in terms of quality and product support. He hasn't been around much of late, no doubt for good reasons, but I'd be fairly sure that his product will work. I was one of quite a few involved in the testing of the first product and can only say that his appetite for feedback on something relatively simple was astounding. I've seen some of his other engineering and electrical solutions and can only say that they're not your typical farmer's fencing wire and "she'll be right" approaches.

I'm sure that he's more than aware of lost opportunities so for those looking for an immediate solution the choice is really only from what is currently available.
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Re: Egr blanking plate in mq???

Postby jerrah on Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:25 pm

NowForThe5th wrote:I do know Tony and think that I have a pretty good idea of what drives him in terms of quality and product support.
Newtriton has given me plenty of good aftermarket advice in the time I've been here, so I appreciate the confidence of the forum to give me a good steer.

I'd be more than happy to pay for a pre-production unit to assist with beta-testing if the product is out of alpha - NDA and all that but I got the impression quite some time ago that it was a done deal and we'd see it around new years. We can only wait I guess or start developing our own unit - but that would seem a pointless duplication of effort if I can just buy one.

I grew up on the land and I'm fully aware what is capable of being developed!

All the best NowForThe5th.
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Re: Egr blanking plate in mq???

Postby ls2cruiser on Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:53 pm

I think this thread has been very interesting to say the least. There is nothing wrong with testing an existing product.
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Re: Egr in mq???

Postby Greytriton on Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:18 am

NowForThe5th wrote:The problem, though, as I see it, is that too many people are such cheapskates that they're not prepared to simply accept that a module works


Just as i thought mate and as mentioned in my previous post, Prepare yourself for the New Triton protection dogs to come out in in full protection mode. As soon as others get closer to the truth with their own "Cheapskate" research you get shot down, banned or bagged.

Isn't this a forum to share information? I'm sure Tony wouldn't share his schematics anyway.

I carried out a basic resistor mod on my ML a few years back and all the sooks under the sun came out of the woodwork. It worked fine for years with no issue. Apparently people didn't like my soldering or shrink wrap on wires.

I measured up the the other modules and tested on my MQ (Were basic static resistors) and returned them. Why would i pay good money for that when i can buy a 50c resistor at Jaycar? I even shared my boost pressure tests.

So probably i would say you need to be a paying member here or your labeled a cheapskate.
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Re: Egr blanking plate in mq???

Postby bigboots on Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:21 pm

Multimeters (ohmeters) don't tell the full story. You connect a multimeter one way you can get a different reading to what you will get with the meter probes connected the opposite way. That generally means that there is an electronic (transistor) circuit in there. I don't know what Tony's circuit involves as I haven't ordered one (postage cost seems high to me- Scot's blood) but if it does what it is claimed that what does it matter what the circuitry is. The real question is - does it reduce any problems with the EGR system?
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Re: Egr blanking plate in mq???

Postby jrs184 on Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:47 am

Greytriton wrote:Id like to know whats so special in all the boxes no matter who makes it.

Cheap box = a resistor on the intake temp sensor wire.

Expensive box = Possibly similar resistor encased in black resin so you cant see.

Id like someone else to do a comprehensive before and after test , monitoring boost pressures. Take pictures etc., Show me.

Like i said, i had a repeatable loss of 4 psi with a EGR delete module installed. Took it off and put up with the occasional clearable error with the full blanking plate.

OR everyone get defensive about it and play secret modules with black bog inside.

Its like Jehovah's witness when they come to the door. I tell them the same thing. I need evidence before i believe. If they could turn my garden rake into a snake before my eyes i would convert on the spot.


If you already believe your garden rake is a snake you will save them the trouble of trying to convert you.
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Re: Egr blanking plate in mq???

Postby Greytriton on Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:42 am

I don't believe in snake rake
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Re: Egr blanking plate in mq???

Postby Greytriton on Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:05 pm

For some members who messaged here is a MQ boost test. The gauge concurred with my scangauge also with a maximum of 25psi at full throttle. Full blank no hole.

https://youtu.be/YpaE4yMvSLs
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Re: Egr blanking plate in mq???

Postby Merts on Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:28 pm

An update on my MQ with the Chip Tuning egr module installed.

Fuel economy is significantly improved. Around 1 litre/100km less than it was previously. This was apparent from dash readout, and confirmed by refilling tank and recording kms travelled, on a route that I've travelled many times before.

Checked boost figures, and they appear unchanged. Low to mid teens under moderate acceleration, and peak figure of about 22psi under hard acceleration.
GLS MQ Triton, ARB Summit front, rear and side bars, Carryboy canopy and rack, Dobinson heavy duty suspension, Harrop rear E-locker, Drifta drawers and a few other bits and pieces.
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Re: Egr blanking plate in mq???

Postby Merts on Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:53 pm

Greytriton wrote:For some members who messaged here is a MQ boost test. The gauge concurred with my scangauge also with a maximum of 25psi at full throttle. Full blank no hole.

https://youtu.be/YpaE4yMvSLs


I'm pretty confident the reason you are getting 25psi with the full blank in, is that it prevents the EGR from operating as a blow off valve, as I understand it is supposed to do.
GLS MQ Triton, ARB Summit front, rear and side bars, Carryboy canopy and rack, Dobinson heavy duty suspension, Harrop rear E-locker, Drifta drawers and a few other bits and pieces.
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Re: Egr blanking plate in mq???

Postby jerrah on Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:42 pm

From Prado Forum on blanking platesTheory is that the variable vane turbo is trying to cause back-pressure to increase EGR flow but because the EGR can't flow it causes the turbo to spool higher boost. With the "modules" the ECU isn't expecting the EGR to flow because it hasn't commanded it so has the variable vanes in a different configuration resulting in "regular" levels of pressure.
Has anyone bothered to work out why the boost pressures goes A-wall once EGR is blocked/restricted?... Funny how everyone notices higher boost pressures and installs more peripherals to drop it back down but don't question what and why it has climbed in the first place and what is happening else where on the engine management because of this Phenomenon?
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Re: Egr blanking plate in mq???

Postby jerrah on Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:18 am

Two things:

1) Can anyone find reference to the 2nd IAT sensor people keep referring to in the workshop manual? You've got EGR gas temp, MAF flow and temp, MAP pressure, fuel temp, coolant temp, etc etc. I haven't been able to find the post intercooler air temp which many people have referred to previously and I've mentioned myself because I keep hearing about it. Possibly the ECU doesn't take air temp into consideration for fueling but it does seem odd. Measuring air temp prior to the turbo seems mighty inaccurate.

I guess my MK 4m40t doesn't change fueling calculations based on air temp, only MAP (because it doesn't have a computer and all fuelling is by a mechanical pump with a boost compensator). It's possible that factor of our engines isn't much more complicated and air temp isn't a parameter for fuel calculations beyond emissions.

2) Factory "boost" levels from the factory.
To check the supercharging pressure when the engine speed increases to approximately 3,000 r/min or more by driving at full acceleration in 2nd.
Standard value:
<Except MIVEC> 235 to 275 kPa
<MIVEC> 240 to 280 kPa


Wikipedia states "Average sea-level pressure is 101.325 kPa"

I believe our motors are MIVEC so apx 20 - 26psi is considered normal range at sea level by Mitsubishi.
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Re: Egr blanking plate in mq???

Postby ls2cruiser on Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:37 pm

Jerrah, you have everyone dumbfounded with that post lol If you show me the tables in a MQ diesel tune then I can probably answer that question about IAT . MAP would definitely affect fueling.
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Re: Egr blanking plate in mq???

Postby L200Shogun on Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:00 pm

jerrah wrote:Two things: ...snip...



MANIFOLD ABSOLUTE PRESSURE SENSOR
Manifold absolute pressure sensor is installed in the upper area of the throttle body assembly. It uses a piezo resistive semiconductor to output a voltage according to the manifold absolute pressure to the engine-ECU.
Engine-ECU uses this voltage output for making fuel injection amount compensations and effecting exhaust gas recirculation control.
Sensor properties are as shown in the figure.


AIR FLOW SENSOR


The air flow sensor is installed in the air cleaner assembly. The air flow sensor comprising the hot wire and the cold wire inside controls the amount of current going to the hot wire to constantly keep the difference in temperature between two wires. When the mass flow rate of air increases, the flow rate increases. Also the amount of heat transfer increases from the hot wire to the air. For these reasons, the air flow sensor increases the amount of current going to the hot wire. That means that the amount of current increases according to the mass flow rate of air. The air flow sensor detects the amount of current to measure the mass flow rate of air. The air flow sensor converts the amount of detected current to the voltage, and outputs it to the engine-ECU. The engine-ECU uses this output voltage for the exhaust gas recirculation control. The sensor characteristics are as follows:


Good reason not to play with MAF value "or exhaust gas recirculation control".

from this page http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/l200_v/on ... dex_M2.htm
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Re: Egr blanking plate in mq???

Postby Spaceman on Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:38 pm

My Triton has now done a total of 1800 k's, 1200 with the Chipit ERG module fitted. There has been no issue at all, the fuel consumption is better down to 7.6/100 (auto)on a new engine is not to bad in my book. There is no fuel dilution (done a stick test) i have actually used a bit of oil. Air intake temp is a lot cooler. This may have to do until something better comes along. I spoke to a guy at the 4X4 show how is happy to just a EGR delete in the ECU, so that may be a option if nothing pops up in the future. I do think the Chipit module is a box of resisters, looks like a something i would of made as a apprentice. No battery change issues all way sat at high 13's to low 14's
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Re: Egr blanking plate in mq???

Postby Spaceman on Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:27 pm

My mistake i typed chipit should be chiptuning. Don't drink and type
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Re: Egr blanking plate in mq???

Postby Spaceman on Sat May 20, 2017 9:39 am

Is anyone else running the chip tune EGR module on their MQ or is it just me.
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Re: Egr blanking plate in mq???

Postby ls2cruiser on Sat May 20, 2017 9:15 pm

Spaceman, I am using the chip tuning module and no issues at all. A bit of an improvement in fuel economy. We are all waiting for the "tony" creation but it has not arrived on the market as far as I know.
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Re: Egr blanking plate in mq???

Postby jrs184 on Thu May 25, 2017 3:14 pm

Greytriton wrote:Id like to know whats so special in all the boxes no matter who makes it.

Cheap box = a resistor on the intake temp sensor wire.

Expensive box = Possibly similar resistor encased in black resin so you cant see.

Id like someone else to do a comprehensive before and after test , monitoring boost pressures. Take pictures etc., Show me.

Like i said, i had a repeatable loss of 4 psi with a EGR delete module installed. Took it off and put up with the occasional clearable error with the full blanking plate.

OR everyone get defensive about it and play secret modules with black bog inside.

Its like Jehovah's witness when they come to the door. I tell them the same thing. I need evidence before i believe. If they could turn my garden rake into a snake before my eyes i would convert on the spot.


Greytriton, hey, I have a brown snake and a black snake that have already been converted from garden rakes if you want to impress your next unsolicited door knocker....
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Re: Egr blanking plate in mq???

Postby jerrah on Mon May 29, 2017 9:37 am

From what I read in the news these egr defeat devices (and the bosch/ vw corporation defeat devices) are likely going to be the end of Diesel engines and possibly include roadworthy emission inspections.

Something to think about if you fit one.

Volvo has announced an exit of Diesel engines and others are expected to follow. Anticipate driving a petro-electric hybrid in the future.
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Re: Egr blanking plate in mq???

Postby FuzzyBear on Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:00 pm

Don't suppose there is any updates on "Tony's" EGR delete module?

Cheers

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Re: Egr blanking plate in mq???

Postby Lawz on Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:20 am

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Re: Egr blanking plate in mq???

Postby chops77 on Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:31 pm

Full blank in top pipe, 100+ kms, no issues as yet
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