Issues with Stability Management Systems (ASC/TC)

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Issues with Stability Management Systems (ASC/TC)

Postby Plantz on Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:39 pm

Hi all,
Couldn't decide if this was the right spot or should have gone in technical, so start here-
I have a MY18 MQ triton,the stability management system/traction control has been 'overactive' from day 1.

At first, I blamed myself, new car, new feel etc. But then I knew it was an issue. It activates the breaks (abs style) and the ASC light flashes on. It happens waaaaaaaaay before traction breaks, and is really disturbing. Many passengers have commented on my ghost braking. I also feel when off roading it kicks in way too early. Once it kept going so long that my light would not go out at all. THe dealer told me this was due to the ABS system overheating..... to me indicating again it was engaging far too much for how little work i was asking of it.

I have taken it to my dealer, they tell me no fault code = no problems. Simply put, the car thinks it is breaking traction so does not log a fault. So the dealer cannot help me. Sadly, i cannot predict when it will happen so hard to put someone in the care for 200km to wait it out....

Recently it threw a wheel speed sensor, and I was so excited as I figured this was the cause, but to no avail. issue persists. I have now escalated to Mitsubishi AU, but they are pushing me back to the dealer.

ANY help welcome, at my witts end and ready to sell an otherwise fine 2year old vehicle.
FYI it has larger tyres now, but the issues were present with original OEM tyres. NO rubbing or otherwise, all fitted and balanced correctly.

Help me please, or I'm off to trade it in...

Thanks in advance.

Levi.
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Re: Issues with Stability Management Systems (ASC/TC)

Postby shawty950 on Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:15 pm

I personally turn off stability control ever time i drive the car. Found that it would cut in and drop power at the slightest loss of traction. Ie spirited driving on bitumen. Worse with all terrains or muds.
Edit: and i mean the slightest...no slides or wheel spin...just that it senses a slight difference in wheel speed just before breaking traction and it drops power and flashes the asc light

Have u tried that to see if that stops it??
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Re: Issues with Stability Management Systems (ASC/TC)

Postby Plantz on Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:02 am

Thanks Shawty,

I am now getting into the habit of just switching the TC off when I enter the car to test it out, as it is an intermittent problem it is hard to say.

From what i can tell, there is no way to turn of the ASC (?) but I can turn the TC off.

From what you are saying, it sounds like you 'enjoy' the exact same problem as mine.
"Edit: and i mean the slightest...no slides or wheel spin...just that it senses a slight difference in wheel speed just before breaking traction and it drops power and flashes the asc light"

WHen this happens does you ABS engage also? Mine actively applies breaks.

Surely they have not simply built a system that sensitive!?
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Re: Issues with Stability Management Systems (ASC/TC)

Postby L200Shogun on Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:57 am

I seem to remember reading about something similar on here before.
The "system" can be reset.
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Re: Issues with Stability Management Systems (ASC/TC)

Postby gartam on Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:00 pm

Tune works sells a switch to turn off the asc/tc. If you are not near them they have distributors that can fit them aswell.
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Re: Issues with Stability Management Systems (ASC/TC)

Postby NowForThe5th on Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:42 pm

Time to set a few things straight.

Firstly, and a little off topic, can we please pay just a little more attention to spelling? Breaks are what you take between periods of work and brakes are the hydraulic/mechanical contrivances that slow or stop your vehicle.



Plantz wrote:From what i can tell, there is no way to turn of the ASC (?) but I can turn the TC off.


Incorrect. The label on the switch says "ASC" and that is what you're turning off, not the Traction Control.

From another thread:
NowForThe5th wrote:You guys continue to confuse Traction Control (TC) and Stability Control (ASC).

The button on the dash turns off Stability Control. Without the specific mod you can't turn off Traction Control, unless in low range and with the factory rear diff lock engaged.

Bear in mind that an important part of the Stability Control system is a yaw sensor that measures rapid changes in direction. Even though the ASC was turned off the attempt to fish tail was probably doomed because the yaw sensor would have picked it up and re-engaged ASC, thinking that you were in an uncontrolled skid. However, if you'd just hung the tail out, wound on some opposite lock and drifted up the street you wouldn't have been forced to give up your fun.

Not that I'm advocating what is illegal behaviour, but there's a little bit of hoon in all of us and sometimes we just have to feed the beast. ;)


So what's happening in Plantz's case is that the vehicle is turning and there is a mismatch of wheel rotational speeds such that the vehicle thinks that it's in a skid because it's also registering sideways movement via the yaw sensor. Traction control is engaged and engine rpm is reduced because this is the most likely way to have the driver regain control. Of course the problem is that the situation isn't as severe as the car thinks it is and depowering the engine may make it a lot worse, given that B Double that is bearing down on you as you stop in the middle of an intersection.

Is the ASC/TC system overactive? Probably not. It's designed and tested to be quite robust and to work in certain situations. Compared to a lot of cars the system on the Triton (and most similar utes) is much slower to react and not work as fast or as smooth. Nevertheless, it is an important safety component and will likely save the lives of inexperienced drivers who haven't yet learnt to drive the vehicle in the most efficient way.

So, what are the solutions?

The Triton is a little truck. It's designed to carry a load and systems are optimised to work when this is the case. Is the tub usually empty? If so, add a couple of hundred kilograms and be amazed at the difference. Better ride and handling, too.

Next, learn to drive this thing so that you don't keep creating the same situation. IIRC you were going to buy a GLS or Exceed. If so, you'd have Super Select. Use it. It will reduce the incidence of the issue to almost nil. If you don't have Super Select then you need to retrain your leg muscles to squeeze, rather than squash, the accelerator on take-off. I know, it took me a long time too, but you can get out of that T intersection without drama when you know how to do it. Practice - you'll find that I'm right.

Turn off ASC. Not really the smartest move. Open diffs these days in a ute with bags of torque and a light rear end mean that these things are just sitting ducks for breaking traction. You can handle it? Would you like me to tell you how many vehicles I've seen come in to the shop having smacked a tree or pole sideways and the driver said he thought he could handle it, so turned the ASC off?

Better tyres. As noted above it's worse with ATs or muddies. They might look way cool but they don't actually work as well as road tyres on the bitumen. If you have to go to ATs then at least get something with a nice soft sticky tread compound like the Bridgestones. Won't last as long as the Mickey Thompsons but you'll have a lot more grip.
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Re: Issues with Stability Management Systems (ASC/TC)

Postby Plantz on Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:58 pm

Hi all, thanks for the responses, much appreciated. Really welcome the experience.

@NowforThe5th, thanks for the input. Fully appreciate the details provided and correction on terminology, thank you (apologies for spelling, I'm a bit on the dyslexic side of life when typing!).

Whilst I agree with the comments as below, the result is more severe and much earlier than I would anticipate, and I just cannot believe this is normal behaviour from a car. I am not some noob winging for the sake of it, this is a genuine issue. If this is the manufacturer's intended performance, I would not recommend anyone buying the car (although i love it otherwise, this is a show stopper for me). Far from this ute being slow to react, it is reacting much earlier than a normal car.

NowForThe5th wrote:So what's happening in Plantz's case is that the vehicle is turning and there is a mismatch of wheel rotational speeds such that the vehicle thinks that it's in a skid because it's also registering sideways movement via the yaw sensor.


The above makes sense conceptually, but not how early it engages or how aggressively given the conditions (e.g. driving on dry sealed smooth roads).

I'm no sponsored F1 driver, but I have a hell of a lot of experience in motor vehicles, particularly on-road and race tracks and having vehicles on their limits or close too. One of my gigs is a superbike coach, lucky enough to buzz around on ~200bhp bikes with all sorts of wizardry and control systems these days. I also get to drive a load of cars, from competitor branded dual-cabs through to performance Euro-trash, both track and road. In all of these never have I ever had a vehicle engage like this. My other half as a passenger has been shocked by it, as have other people driving my car, so I know it is a legitimate issue for most people.

The vehicle is not having any issues with acceleration etc (i can moderate the throttle fine and avoid this even unloaded), and if it breaks traction here, no issues, this is normal. I ave the GLS, so can use super select when needed, but this is not a solution to the issue at hand as traction is not being lost, it is very far from this point.

It is under normal driving conditions- normally off the throttle or on a steady throttle that it occurs, always in corners (so yes Yaw related makes sense). It is not just cutting the throttle, but actively engaging the braking system (you can hear and feel this). It is not trying to retard or reduce rear wheel spin/traction loss, but rather it appears to be trying to correct what it perceives as an out of control vehicle or situation and it feels like brakes applied to front wheels (e.g. the fishtailing noted above, even though it is not). Like when you try and throw a modern car into a handbrake turn and it begins applying breaks to front wheels to try and avoid the vehicle crossing up.

Nothing to do with tyres etc as it is actually not breaking traction at all, it is a very long way from this point, and it was the same with the factory spec tyres as it is with my Toyo AT's. I even had it happen in a 50 zone going around a normal suburban corner off throttle the other day.

My suspicion was a faulty wheel speed sensor or Yaw sensor or similar, I have asked my dealer this question But my dealer won't touch anything without a fault code. They replaced one faulty wheel speed sensor, but the problem persists, and when this went it was completely different activating a fault light and keeping it illuminated.

Called Mitsubishi Australia who told me I need to go via my dealer. My dealer says they cannot do anything so talk to Mitsubishi Australia... quite circular and I am left frustrated by an otherwise great car.

Thanks,
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Re: Issues with Stability Management Systems (ASC/TC)

Postby NowForThe5th on Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:22 pm

Get hold of another Triton of similar specification and put it through the same situations. If it reacts the same then it's inbuilt, but if different then you may have a case to take to your dealer.
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Re: Issues with Stability Management Systems (ASC/TC)

Postby DibbyDibbyDJ on Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:13 pm

Plantz wrote:

Called Mitsubishi Australia who told me I need to go via my dealer. My dealer says they cannot do anything so talk to Mitsubishi Australia... quite circular and I am left frustrated by an otherwise great car.


It is totally the dealers responsibility to contact MMAL
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Re: Issues with Stability Management Systems (ASC/TC)

Postby aybe on Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:36 am

Why can't the dealer just take it for a test drive?That's what my mechanic would do in this situation.
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Re: Issues with Stability Management Systems (ASC/TC)

Postby chapmaan on Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:38 am

aybe wrote:Why can't the dealer just take it for a test drive?That's what my mechanic would do in this situation.


Good point. Seems there are dealers and there are dealers.

I was having an issue that was intermittent some time ago and the service manager actually took the car home for a few nights.

Sure enough he experienced it too and it led to the issue being resolved.
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Re: Issues with Stability Management Systems (ASC/TC)

Postby Plantz on Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:44 am

Thanks all,

I initially took it to the dealer, no faults, no issues. I pushed back after more issues for myself and then they gave it to one of the technicians for a few days (who kindly returned it with a near-empty tank). As the problem is intermittent and not able to be reliably replicated (e.g. it happens randomly without 'identifiable cause') they simply told me it didn't happen to them, so can't help me.

I have offered now to return and try and take them on a drive to see if we can replicate it, but the issues are how sporadic and unpredictable it is. Furthermore, they have pretty much told me to talk to MMA, and of course, MMA tells me to talk to the dealer.

The issues I have now is, even if I take them for a drive, we do not know when it will occur. On a drive, it could happen 5 times, and then no issues for a week. It doesn't log faults so no dice from the dealer.

I have driven 2 other MQ's (one was a manual though) and have not had the problem occur.... so I still suspect it is my car. Also, as 4 passengers (and 1 driver) also experienced it and they agree it is not normal.....

Super annoying, the saga continues. MMA told me they would call my dealer and then tell the dealer to call me back, of course, this has not happened either.....

Thanks, I will let you know if I get a resolution.
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Re: Issues with Stability Management Systems (ASC/TC)

Postby DibbyDibbyDJ on Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:43 am

I know the OP said it occurred with Original tyres, but now has larger and still occuring. I will be honest but if you brought the car to me with that problem i would not look at it unless is had original tyres and wheels on it.

ABS/ASC/TC whatever is designed to work with certain known parameters, for example, ABS system knows at 40kph and 130nm of pedal force the tyre will deform to such a point where it knows that ABS operation is needed before the wheel starts to slip. With larger tyres, different tread patterns and non standard tyre pressures this calcualtion is not going to work out, and traction issues will occur.

And with different tyres, the dealer is going to be looking for a fault that is not the vehicles cause. And when they contact MMAL technical for advice, one of the first things they ask is is the drivetrain as standard.

MMAL will not pay for diagnosing faults on a non standard car, and the dealer wont do it for free, and im sure you dont want to pay either.

This may sound like corporate BS, but it is how it works.
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